From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.orgmode Subject: Re: org 9.2.6 and org 9.1.9 Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 07:18:48 +0100 Message-ID: References: <7D2A3D8D-CB71-4B0D-8839-9633BD9F9C4B@traduction-libre.org> <874kyqcuup.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="238443"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Org-mode , Emacs developers To: Jean-Christophe Helary Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 27 07:19:16 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iZqfT-000zsn-Rd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 07:19:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33334 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iZqfR-0004Yr-W9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 01:19:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46227) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iZqfL-0004YY-H2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 01:19:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZqfH-0003SU-CR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 01:19:07 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-f50.google.com ([209.85.216.50]:43760) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZqfE-0003QX-UD; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 01:19:01 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-f50.google.com with SMTP id a10so9423917pju.10; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:19:00 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yPELDTAd4JIldRAci2+kUYzjWXPFoVuEqSekTFpF978=; b=OXPuz9BXG5iV+O7FP1m0jUEFULMB/AhG/QsifS3HMOa8kmIiY/zYxGK6k487opkx3s BTf9vS0tT12WipiZYkmAuRykKU4JZ6RoLF4gOWoV1UtMLSVqus5v7FC1Brhu7DP3/+fH N8C3fiU0k9dtfJd79hY2gSdWoMQ4iq2cR7LP96X4OHfxkE6bbDim+5uUte56Z17ztDOG 3jSdnLfd98jLSI5IlW3w+jNtz/zZUaYHk0WPEc2RXmk9M8Zc0vc6OkbZWLWKNpQnxYIM VThGnTiErHIsJP1BpLH3NjfEZOw2q9OQuCYvI780XUWOofU+GgQ8mqWeU5RkzpgFLFLW bnNg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWo8pkrq5/6aflqYFFa539x4zw9IFuP/UpbsvpkmldnH60GJ/73 IeCKGk+UlTIEqAB1ZZfnESnsmbiBLfXq0+57uv4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyHsUsBfF9mX9GAbIGJTBE6DtF/0WPIRIHLYdOSIcn6mrp4LcqqpQmt1Vu+EKBoaQm45ZZ1jtMwNxAUR8ZmbHg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:1424:: with SMTP id j33mr4064094pja.2.1574835539760; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:18:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.216.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:242767 gmane.emacs.orgmode:126145 Archived-At: Jean-Christophe Helary writes: > > Yes, it is a bit of dependency hell. > > I see 2 solutions here: > > 1) org is only provided as a built-in package and updated there when necessary Even if we removed it from GNU ELPA, nothing stops unofficial packages from cropping up when users want to run the latest and greatest. Users of such packages would then report bugs when things broke, and we would be back where we started. (BTW, there already is a separate package archive on https://orgmode.org/elpa/.) > 2) org is removed from the built in packages Option 2 would be extremely unfortunate, to put it mildly. It would leave a lot of users without functionality they've come to expect and depend on to be there in the default install. GNU ELPA is not always a practical alternative (just to give one example, on servers or networks not connected to the internet). And even if we remove org-mode, who is to say that other packages won't see the same issues in the future? Should we just accept that we have to remove any package from Emacs which runs into this? IMO, let's work on fixing the underlying problems instead. Elsewhere in this thread, Stefan Monnier and others has pointed out what needs to be done: now we need to figure out how to do it. Best regards, Stefan Kangas