From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311952 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > The specific practical questions I've asked are efforts to evaluate > where we are now along that spectrum. Of course, the answer to that > isn't precise either. But I was very surprised to learn how far > Emacs has gone towards the latter end. It seems to me that the extent to which Emacs has shifted "towards the latter end" is still open to interpretation. More fundamentally, I believe the question we should be asking isn't the quantity of cl-lib used in Emacs, but rather why these abstractions from Common Lisp appeal to ELisp developers. Most ELisp developers, I presume, do not have a background in Common Lisp, indicating that their choice to use cl-lib.el isn't driven by a mere affinity for CL. Is it possible that certain abstractions or functions are filling a gap in Emacs Lisp itself? In the case of `cl-pushnew', I happen to think that the answer is yes. Discussing `cl-pushnew' and other cases like it might help us identify areas for improvement in Emacs Lisp proper. Perhaps we can borrow the CL name/behavior, or perhaps we can come up with something even better. That would be more constructive, and more helpful, than spending our time changing code to not use cl-lib.el just for the sake of it.