From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Platform independent graphical display for Emacs Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 22:28:45 -0800 Message-ID: References: <87ilvgwfor.fsf@telefonica.net> <83a6grx1o9.fsf@gnu.org> <834k6zwvi1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7azilmu.fsf@yahoo.com> <87sfujh4a2.fsf@yahoo.com> <877dbuhm6j.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tueyg5gc.fsf@yahoo.com> <87a6gqfw7j.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28433"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Drew Adams , "xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions." To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 24 07:31:29 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n0e6z-0007H0-2b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 07:31:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:32982 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0e6x-0004Br-3Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 01:31:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33248) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0e4P-0003RW-D2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 01:28:49 -0500 Original-Received: from [2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d] (port=47087 helo=mail-pj1-x102d.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0e4N-0000Kb-RS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 01:28:49 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x102d.google.com with SMTP id rj2-20020a17090b3e8200b001b1944bad25so7606989pjb.5 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 22:28:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=E2YCgYb51di6UNsfiLmc0lFcmu2DvHGQ1b/VKw4lNyQ=; b=aa0PPf8B4SREnSS6H0BchTuuDC7k4yTquszX7s3UrIHcSaMJfa9+eZ0ONxv/pfwAtA fsBMqA9k2X8UBtkAG8zI8U2V0RmHTPZG9aVf/OyrpkIuo0Z5xKubILpKskGaHKwOT+G6 LBQuEEZhPk9dG/SNsrYzEbRG0w0hzYY2GahjbjFoXLIEXD727bktUdZ+FzCTcsPqOuNb 9BLpE939cXhoX3CqXc+icPWhd7oYh9VmyefJ5LjMPDphY8MEMv+Y/J1tEVu08Xh0Cs7I Zx49+Wr35Of4VkuBuST039t1NJp2khLCJseeTKi1Iefu4wbl5PlTbfPjAYtDVa7kK7dt LJ/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=E2YCgYb51di6UNsfiLmc0lFcmu2DvHGQ1b/VKw4lNyQ=; b=2xyROGcsM1+AXUotNqDAKS9AsndoQ+IaL7MX8m8mj2iIEsgcWXv1M5GTCmYIhiVZtH S6BXLBrOAflpn8DxxsuoOsb4hJ+yS6UoZZdxS7PYQSCL3wZz7tCDIJ35PF1D6oDGnESG zaya+D8wO3mBi9hM4VCVAXAFAOQ4GsYFg8jmdXHvGcpDSRl8hMUvYIKWPyizB0u9Dmhm hJEtRSJRyhZt072Om8tSXnqsEqZ0kXyClK8hFCgmTbersVrSNg6zig+uaiehY0MvBIqr 3ADwL8j/j2CMCGNjm1XHGwm79+AXn6bVPY0UEU0mVO3PuB50wneKO3FgkcO9o9ClX9qv A8hA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530lY6gaAq3f3+eUuBcUyxHeYzlafmTXJu1nYGAgpGs/ffclrg7T PUUm+Z4owz1xmswSWCeMgYCls3UtABl2djd55L0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw0XZAhNdzh2UcH23bFmPGQ8lq2hRAEqwKRm670/Byo1MFc8u6ezOIybVAWgs4tJeqfci2W82H145c88JnY1Uw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:1bc5:: with SMTP id r5mr6291851pjr.133.1640327325673; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 22:28:45 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 22:28:45 -0800 In-Reply-To: <87a6gqfw7j.fsf@yahoo.com> X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:283084 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > Stefan Kangas writes: > >> I don't think that what we do necessarily translates very well to the >> widgets provided by common toolkits. For example, the mode line is >> not rendered by a toolkit. > > That's because it's part of an Emacs window, not a widget. Yes. I was under the impression that this was well understood, and didn't need pointing out. >> Dialogs are basically not very useful or Emacsy as is. When they pop >> up, you are completely outside of "Emacs land", and there is no way for >> us to add keybindings, style them, etc. or do much of anything really. > > Just as in gedit and other graphical editors, no? Yes, but I expect more from Emacs than from other editors. >> Our scrollbars are fairly subpar compared to the ones in VSCode, at >> least in GTK. > > The built-in (as in, no toolkit) scrollbar is even worse, That's true, but to be clear I am not talking about that build. > Child frames basically look the same regardless of platform, as long as > window decorations are turned off (if they are on, again, that's outside > our control). They are even implemented the same way widgets are on X, > via an X window with a parent, so I don't really see the difference. I don't really understand your argument here; I see a significant difference between widgets and frames. >> No idea. I guess the menus would be different on macOS. > > NS users will complain. I meant that the menus would likely be global on macOS. I think you will agree that they would not complain about that.