From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as a word processor Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2020 20:53:04 -0600 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35742"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_Mart=C3=ADn?= , Richard Stallman , Emacs Devel To: yarnton@tutanota.com, Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 23 03:55:02 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kruIn-0009BP-Tr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 23 Dec 2020 03:55:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35078 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kruIm-0007Pf-UZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 21:55:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54926) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kruHq-0006xo-7D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 21:54:02 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pl1-x62d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::62d]:41348) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kruGw-0002Hn-Os; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 21:54:01 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id y8so8403194plp.8; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 18:53:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0rw12+EYg80qn+2R5AOM50X4b44vgNcGqLTbUAiGZcc=; b=cu2Hl91UAQZO6ejG7ftJeJxxR1a5+V4JDyEzHBUCbJ08yk7Tkx8vNJ5/59rUt1qw35 5WCzAUZyDKoFN4kfnLx3rFlSU/FJ0fsBGi3JNyPMKoQ9kj9fdzw8QL76r5KrvlJvwH4p AD1C9Ur4tNE9MVjLphjKw2kIe04HPW+zdgjQ4CGyT71P2xpcUQa0Rgh/4GNgvTnQhods zVRHHs45kqNiZqTUt8LHq6RUFwhb6xhjaFMQDhxLK6DO/kSZwBywytbgUbeHtgABz2Nv Zorc4Qx9KKKDzyL2a8E18GMCaxlR7Omv2lEYTToII8gEJW0sKDCJFFpxC1C9uW5plN9j +Zpw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0rw12+EYg80qn+2R5AOM50X4b44vgNcGqLTbUAiGZcc=; b=UAxFL84/Oqpvep7gkHnFgz55uwknm75eL6Ok4+h6pD+hdeEOeABBcxnP3Jf/OGUD6V 67dXrvblxeJgQkWcbD3zzdQR3/nKWhI/XLPX0bAeaSS5pZHecDvbQwmID6VWkoEaG8sL /WJQAPkaMG61EIjnNRJo8bkafXxh+KC+LOfj0O/b5GsfYfcDeJEtNilBOxw+LwfUEXoD 9/koWumcTU74s6gVj8EI8vqOwIa1t2k0bkRYGSzLhuwnpufnqot2EzxtNtbR7+n/kyZ6 S/KeRBo9hbvM0QBOk51jdv0A60g+b+OVKjsXtm+Ykn2j9cS8SJYcbd0bk/TO25syVHNB 5yfQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533jFV8epD//qh75pPWHYjXvnGMlUIIgAh4npSxwEzWfWCKOM4fQ o7l+muvuLTiLCkOaFCwAD8EMvmw0dgNXIwGSBLY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyliUJZlS/DR7MIxbRrPMeq327KnrJvCVYZ6rB/1CqipHJmuCnU416Av+01xZXef2lO/pqrtissCyzV7wTvUNo= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:fb43:: with SMTP id iq3mr25139734pjb.175.1608691984780; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 18:53:04 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 22 Dec 2020 20:53:04 -0600 In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62d; envelope-from=stefankangas@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x62d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261553 Archived-At: yarnton--- via "Emacs development discussions." writes: > Interoperability with docx and odt is harder unless you go down the > rabbit hole of getting close to feature parity with them. Otherwise it > will be one-way only. I don't see why the options are limited to "feature parity" or "one-way only". I think there can exist a useful half-way house of "two way support for odt" even if it is vastly more basic than "feature parity". > IMHO, since Emacs is mostly plain text oriented it is going to be hard > to go beyond supporting what Org already offers. Which is quite a lot: > Hierarchical structure, different text formats, figures, tables, > footnotes, metadata, very flexible exporting capabilities... FWIW, my ideal UI would be: open an odt file and edit it in Org-mode, save it again as an odt file. It doesn't matter much to me if some formatting is removed, as long as the most basic is preserved such as italics, bold, headings, blockquotes and maybe links. > One area that could benefit from some improvements is reference > management. Org offers footnotes, which are not quite the same as > proper first-class references or citations. Indeed, this is one of the worst parts of Org-mode now. But I have a hard time even conceptually dreaming up what an ideal UI would look like here.