From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20697: 25.0.50; Mention `M-x report-emacs-bug' on splash screen Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 14:01:54 +0200 Message-ID: References: <874l2az3r3.fsf@mouse.gnus.org> <5d8f820c-4029-45cf-8fd7-b1fc44f8e6e3@default> <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000babce1059282234f" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="33683"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 20697@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 14 14:03:25 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1i96lt-0008YH-9w for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 14:03:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49740 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1i96ls-00050g-8J for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:03:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57342) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1i96lc-00050S-1l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:03:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1i96la-0002No-KR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:03:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:37121) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1i96la-0002Nk-Gu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:03:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i96la-0000zx-DL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:03:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2019 12:03:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20697 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 20697-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20697.15684625373785 (code B ref 20697); Sat, 14 Sep 2019 12:03:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20697) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Sep 2019 12:02:17 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45942 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i96ko-0000yx-Um for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:02:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-f173.google.com ([209.85.215.173]:45821) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1i96km-0000yi-Gj for 20697@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 08:02:13 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-f173.google.com with SMTP id 4so16694579pgm.12 for <20697@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 05:02:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KfHVL53UoRbnG0aCcREqMZ6pMFQOjPimkq0VW6Xnllk=; b=gQHZh5g2btLqtbgxTrA8dhuuLbLKp2cNvRx2x9gprGOZkBmWKOZrUYp4N/O4tIOs9a +1FD5WQ7HXAUQUkw98pczGLuOGxmvZH7e9tTEL4PFTxe9U5bPbjP3pFNmsHs+9eUrYpR af1tJQoTwZoX/6XP0/PLEu9k+wWS85AwlFUOZQLsXVPM5cVFwWo5eKDmCDeJuV6yRO0V mYm7Aip9fAyPwXKI6yeiEE4cBguoXMUf/XpqDJPPt5KIjV8FZQ4tUP0/59ZmnLjpWxYQ zHReY+AK+z89EPH6o8u4Pcwbg7bxkRZRZOQsixgmjLCZXZykewnteC0EXcQL8SnCM3cV +P7g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWrxQO80XVrdtSQEbIUHuzhpo1FWl0Pzp2t9DfXfNx3/wVoXXsY nx7htzOZ2ONMX/4HKxtOoa3WwuIQtwjR0XPv8fQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyAcXwTnTmQKcsflGmD+aCQOUOjINVudk7qlSdMTke1p0PLNY1MowKIdqIgjfX4jlHYTJJ8v5QznOWw3+vopAo= X-Received: by 2002:a63:ef4d:: with SMTP id c13mr11104215pgk.200.1568462526365; Sat, 14 Sep 2019 05:02:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5e1c6ad4-5c01-4989-bbcf-7e398ba9ede6@default> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:166439 Archived-At: --000000000000babce1059282234f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Drew Adams writes: > > Do you have any ideas for how to better emphasize enhancement > > requests? Should it be a separate bullet point on the "Contribute" > > page perhaps? > > My suggestion is to put it explicitly in the text/link > that then leads you to the doc section that covers all > of this. > > Although "contribute improvements" covers suggesting > enhancements, I think the former suggests more > substantial contribution than just asking for or > suggesting a possible enhancement - something wished. > > I think it's important for users to see, up front, > an invitation to make even minor or undeveloped, even > possibly infeasible or not-well-thought-through > suggestions. > > If that invitation is found only after following some > "contribute" link to doc that covers everything, > including full-blown patches, then its effect on > inviting superficial suggestions can be lost. > > So I'd "waste" a few extra chars to spell out that > invitation explicitly. Something like this: > > "How to report bugs and suggest or contribute possible improvements" I find that line a bit too packed with information to be easily parsed. I think that the concern Lars has pointed out is valid here: the about screen is already very dense. I came up with the attached tentative patch that adds a paragraph to "Contributing" manual page, attached here for discussion. But thinking about this a bit more, I can't decide if it's a good idea to encourage this or not. There is a risk that we get too many low quality suggestions that we will waste a lot of time handling. But perhaps that's an unwarranted fear, and the biggest problem in the long run might be users that feel distant and disengaged from Emacs development. Encouraging feature suggestions might help draw in new developers. On the other hand, what we need more than suggestions would be patches to fix what is already in the bug tracker, and this doesn't do much to help that. There are already many worthy and good projects in the bug tracker, suitable for everything from beginners to experts. More low quality feature requests would make it harder to find these requests in the bug tracker, thus raising the barrier for new developers. So I see both arguments as valid here, and I'm conflicted between them. Since it's a social issue more than a technical one, I'm not sure there is one correct answer. Perhaps the question is simply if this is subjectively desirable from the point of view of the leading Emacs developers? After all, they are the ones who will do the majority of the work handling these suggestions. Best regards, Stefan Kangas --000000000000babce1059282234f Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset="US-ASCII"; name="0001-Document-feature-requests-in-the-Emacs-manual.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-Document-feature-requests-in-the-Emacs-manual.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_k0ji2vf50 RnJvbSAwMDljMDFkOWRmMzEwM2QwZTA4MjhkZmI2YTVmYThkY2Q1YWNhMmJhIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBTdGVmYW4gS2FuZ2FzIDxzdGVmYW5rYW5nYXNAZ21haWwuY29t PgpEYXRlOiBTYXQsIDE0IFNlcCAyMDE5IDEzOjI3OjEwICswMjAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0g RG9jdW1lbnQgZmVhdHVyZSByZXF1ZXN0cyBpbiB0aGUgRW1hY3MgbWFudWFsCgoqIGRvYy9lbWFj cy90cm91YmxlLnRleGkgKENvbnRyaWJ1dGluZyk6IERvY3VtZW50IGZlYXR1cmUKcmVxdWVzdHMu ICAoQnVnMjA2OTcpCi0tLQogZG9jL2VtYWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aSB8IDEzICsrKysrKysrKysr KysKIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCAxMyBpbnNlcnRpb25zKCspCgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvZG9jL2Vt YWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aSBiL2RvYy9lbWFjcy90cm91YmxlLnRleGkKaW5kZXggMTNkM2U4NDc1 Yy4uMTdkZTZlZGVjOCAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEvZG9jL2VtYWNzL3Ryb3VibGUudGV4aQorKysgYi9k b2MvZW1hY3MvdHJvdWJsZS50ZXhpCkBAIC0xMjk5LDYgKzEyOTksMTkgQEAgQ29udHJpYnV0aW5n CiBAZW5kIGlmaHRtbAogWW91IGNhbiBhc2sgZm9yIHN1Z2dlc3RlZCBwcm9qZWN0cyBvciBzdWdn ZXN0IHlvdXIgb3duIGlkZWFzLgogCitJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhIGZlYXR1cmUgcmVxdWVzdCBvciBh IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gZm9yIGhvdyB0byBpbXByb3ZlCitFbWFjcywgdGhlIGJlc3QgcGxhY2UgdG8g c2VuZCBpdCBpcyB0bworQGlmbm90aHRtbAorQGVtYWlse2J1Zy1nbnUtZW1hY3Mub3JnfQorQGVu ZCBpZm5vdGh0bWwKK0BpZmh0bWwKK0B1cmx7aHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5nbnUub3JnL21haWxtYW4v bGlzdGluZm8vYnVnLWdudS1lbWFjcywgYnVnLWdudS1lbWFjc30KK0BlbmQgaWZodG1sCisuICBQ bGVhc2UgZXhwbGFpbiBpbiBjbGVhciBsYW5ndWFnZSBleGFjdGx5IHdoYXQgY2hhbmdlIHlvdSB3 b3VsZCBsaWtlCit0byBzZWUsIGFuZCB3aHkgYW5kIGhvdyB5b3UgdGhpbmsgaXQgd291bGQgaW1w cm92ZSBFbWFjcy4gIElmIHlvdXIKK3N1Z2dlc3Rpb24gaXMgYWNjZXB0ZWQsIHRoaXMgd2lsbCBh bGxvdyBpdCB0byBzdGFuZCBhIGJldHRlciBjaGFuY2Ugb2YKK2F0dHJhY3RpbmcgaW50ZXJlc3Qg ZnJvbSBvbmUgb2YgbWFueSB2b2x1bnRlZXIgRW1hY3MgZGV2ZWxvcGVycy4KKwogSWYgeW91IGhh dmUgYWxyZWFkeSB3cml0dGVuIGFuIGltcHJvdmVtZW50LCBwbGVhc2UgdGVsbCB1cyBhYm91dCBp dC4gIElmCiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBub3QgeWV0IHN0YXJ0ZWQgd29yaywgaXQgaXMgdXNlZnVsIHRvIGNv bnRhY3QKIEBpZm5vdGh0bWwKLS0gCjIuMjAuMQoK --000000000000babce1059282234f--