From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Elias_M=C3=A5rtenson?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: custom-set-variables considered harmful Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 00:35:58 +0800 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113dbab0fa0868055f21ba11" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1511973396 8280 195.159.176.226 (29 Nov 2017 16:36:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 16:36:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Philippe Vaucher , emacs-devel To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 29 17:36:32 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eK5La-0001ix-6v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:36:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44002 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eK5Lh-0005V5-Ht for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:36:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54690) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eK5L7-0005Ux-C9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:36:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eK5L6-0001tF-8q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:36:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-io0-x22e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22e]:44680) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eK5L6-0001t2-37 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 11:36:00 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-io0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id w127so4287269iow.11 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:35:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wFv7HFW1Wq3ZhSHQMQ4SHqxYLbcxEiIH1F6vX98VKEI=; b=JK614MqOWDon1C5AuqxwfFHYOT8/DwPMqt8IYJmYDqdYZHB0HMVwUDxgdwdJ/dq2lP nmh0LKFhEGxO4usOx3dShQ8ukacap0pVHb1kaiUYMlpAnQ12R8d70ugoPWsY2CT3QhL2 zVrQ5s6r2LlXPDWRNoCWFGHzCtnCZL8lPtUIwEXXOFTCliuknZoZa3WGCnDkSavNyNyi LT8Od/8a8Nk4gUYMO0ET0aBMJ+xY49+Fw3b4dYQI9fW0F1UXNf7HLmVmbQHocwZwgmiC ElqKzw35PtDuuBbvl6/iYni3PRW9/uzRD0q7JJRVzve3+76cO0TgSe/7E4R25UxBj6NI nOUQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wFv7HFW1Wq3ZhSHQMQ4SHqxYLbcxEiIH1F6vX98VKEI=; b=gNMEm2mu6ivgLqt+MTVInzww6Kz8EMsaPCv+MIqNhJVlWZkb5gvVmzr36UjwOXu8zO goIxFpv6GUDVOgQ/W5F2+GMRkcXhgCOHMAwsqqSnuCzmUXz3IXG/fe3WUlcLQE/wDF+n F7ybu6dwLDBhsL5GEZ5AbO9bLUC+h0c07IPigbi7qzsI3K5yt8TRyy3ykFe6/54XODc2 BWhXmSGloSAL8OpneNMQVzY5oKBE2OEGHQc00Ryay6Qt7jPmfhv9+PlVRF6W+qL7aC6G rzwFxAdyb3LriFw7p5edjlQpH7YNgLU9CImtD82NQW5TZQPn0CHuLbqE8QVQfgh9T+5C 8JIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7UdDWoMneltIQJ61qELBRmguhvCU8S96yxbkt0oU1jZ686hXdv QAtZmSXMxVRlmLFxEfEJ+OK7+ELHpXCFeYA9Rss= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZz+tRkd4+aGJas0/aTr3WV5qrfWbO6WvGClTZ8btX9HoHASwh49MpkWAVd2L5Y5Kh1GLzk/NpTAy8IIktaPrI= X-Received: by 10.107.14.213 with SMTP id 204mr3986809ioo.127.1511973359055; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:35:59 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.107.62.134 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 08:35:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:220520 Archived-At: --001a113dbab0fa0868055f21ba11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 29 November 2017 at 23:00, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > Thus, if you use =E2=80=98setq=E2=80=99 instead of =E2=80=98custom-set-= variable=E2=80=99 you need to > > manually check every single variable to ensure they don't have setter > > functions assigned. If you want to be thorough (nobody is) you also > > need to check them every time your modules are updated. This is not > > just a theoretical situation. > > Note that there are also many situations where the var has a setter, yet > doing (setq foo val) on it from your ~/.emacs will still work correctly > (as long as you do it before loading the library). > I'd argue it's actually the most frequent case. > It is. But why does that make a difference? There are plenty of other things that works almost all the time, even though it's not recommended. All I'm trying to say is that we currently have two methods for setting custom variables: - setq - works almost all the time - custom-set-variable - works all the time I'm not saying that anyone should make setq not work. I'm simply suggesting that perhaps it's a good idea to recommend users that they use the one, simple, mechanism that exists and works all the time. Wouldn't that make things simpler in the long run? Regards, Elias --001a113dbab0fa0868055f21ba11 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 2= 9 November 2017 at 23:00, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca<= /a>> wrote:
&g= t; Thus, if you use =E2=80=98setq=E2=80=99 instead of =E2=80=98custom-set-v= ariable=E2=80=99 you need to
> manually check every single variable to ensure they don't have set= ter
> functions assigned.=C2=A0 If you want to be thorough (nobody is) you a= lso
> need to check them every time your modules are updated.=C2=A0 This is = not
> just a theoretical situation.

Note that there are also many situations where the var has a setter,= yet
doing (setq foo val) on it from your ~/.emacs will still work correctly
(as long as you do it before loading the library).
I'd argue it's actually the most frequent case.



=
=C2=A0 - custom-set-variable - works all the time

=
I'm not saying that anyone should make setq not work. I'm simp= ly suggesting that
perhaps it's a good idea to recommend user= s that they use the one, simple,
mechanism that exists and works = all the time.

Wouldn't that make things simple= r in the long run?

Regards,
Elias
<= /div>
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