From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eduardo Ochs Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Lambdas for beginners broken - help, please Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 09:49:46 -0300 Message-ID: References: <87sevz0w8q.fsf@web.de> <87ttgezhej.fsf@web.de> <86v80u59s9.fsf@gnu.org> <86o76l4sew.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17134"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 25 14:51:18 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sWxwE-0004JK-Ms for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 25 Jul 2024 14:51:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sWxvS-0004wE-L2; Thu, 25 Jul 2024 08:50:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sWxv3-0004sH-6a for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Jul 2024 08:50:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yw1-x1129.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1129]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sWxuy-0005ap-Q5; Thu, 25 Jul 2024 08:50:02 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yw1-x1129.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-65fdfd7b3deso9405707b3.0; Thu, 25 Jul 2024 05:49:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1721911798; x=1722516598; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=J0xZUc719hjiHY4Fg/QyHf+Iynevmhaeu6jskpSHC7E=; b=V4ufZ5j2hhspVLBBBbVa0Wusb8BSI9KQ/bBg/tPk9GoPaxdE/9ia6qZIGgNnByUboA nXHvgf5v4wMfUVi8jalm6Kh64IJHQYPEdXq4Dn/ds7GF1iPBJic6a5cjHFm23f85ucvp NSuhHMS9g3SZ+i1wx+rzFMCp575Xsv+uwc5X6vLtc96kjwwLYlUGfNeZ8ZYitNURTZJb 6dBN1E4TTaSJdc7d9qPA9O3BBz1TLxlHrvk/j2bsKi+uSXuSsBgG7d1GKDhfqTmg+eHf +KJrIHQu500wZhlOC6K6x14zt5o55fOTSryPSLqC1F+kxBoGR72x64Ro6VlBDS6Ivi+I np7Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1721911798; x=1722516598; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=J0xZUc719hjiHY4Fg/QyHf+Iynevmhaeu6jskpSHC7E=; b=d1LfRHG7CMtoPZ/qmTm2vgIRuabpJ74EqCGKyNTXu/bnQDRz8rPibCEe7AKy1IaQNe R0Sho6Z38k6hLjXrsotYDeJDANN3/w5ksiogM7Y63fAMWOOv5lgrmXPn8na6IkOfVYq3 PBtKqqWV1W2M7lBwIh13ZBHhTPKZMbFBhpQJS/yhOSN9pVtwGNgBLQarFA0Z8j/3r12H yh7RXIvpxPQQ9c6KUnePZya+IoXMY2Bewge54ZhuW0pjD9FNKPkwooELIlipnkPJQUyI u9hK639M5NVdlIfNjDjH5Dj+e6MdEakT7HMG9wc0AFjm6Ak4i/WQHHxLSBU6SbzMC5MQ bfog== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzf8W5W08iFr6nAqrIimi9K0gzkOlxB/lBhNbCc3zDgr+bebN9u HzrbVn3XAnP1HZHhbcjXbU6UZSKpq6Y0P7X2ANc9pPQ3rQdov7UcmkDB/h2r2gEZ5lIeW+VX2s+ m8mFswLUZ2ADCiAPqA3CO211bjrxBgVDgQV8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHRbiUDGgLSJxN2U7n3i7Hx/fTf8wSJPcUp8wk4aorRbDhl/Bz8pk2wsRqQFoqnCK+OIA4bhuQJjN/s7NRUIn0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:45c5:b0:61a:ccb0:7cdd with SMTP id 00721157ae682-675161751b6mr25794207b3.46.1721911798432; Thu, 25 Jul 2024 05:49:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <86o76l4sew.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1129; envelope-from=eduardoochs@gmail.com; helo=mail-yw1-x1129.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:147365 Archived-At: On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 at 08:34, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > From: Eduardo Ochs > > Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 06:44:27 -0300 > > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > > > On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 at 02:19, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2024 22:03:48 +0200 > > > > From: Michael Heerdegen via Users list for the GNU Emacs text edit= or > > > > > > > > Agreed, this is at least misleading. Stefan, Eli? > > > > > > What is misleading? > > > > > > I admit that I don't have a clear understanding of the issue: I don't > > > understand what Eduardo wants to do in the first place, nor which > > > version of Emacs broke what he did or why. So maybe wait for Stefan > > > to chime in. > > > > Hi Eli, > > > > lambda used to be: > > > > self-quoting in dynamic binding, > > non-self-quoting in lexical binding. > > > > Now lambda is: > > > > non-self-quoting in dynamic binding, > > non-self-quoting in lexical binding. > > > > So its docstring needs to be updated. > > What is "now"? which version of Emacs is that? > > And how is the current doc string misleading or unclear? Hi Eli, "now" is d2cb9f2bf6ef9f3fcd8c21455ca1f1e624e61bf4, dated Thu Jul 25 13:38:27 2024 +0200, pulled and compiled a few minutes ago. The docstring for lambda says Return an anonymous function. Under dynamic binding, a call of the form (lambda ARGS DOCSTRING INTERACTIVE BODY) is self-quoting; the result of evaluating the lambda expression is the expression itself. Under lexical binding, the result is a closure. Regardless, the result is a function, i.e., it may be stored as the function value of a symbol, passed to =E2=80=98funcall=E2=80=99 or =E2=80=98mapcar=E2=80=99, = etc. and the sentence Under dynamic binding, a call of the form (lambda ARGS DOCSTRING INTERACTIVE BODY) is self-quoting; the result of evaluating the lambda expression is the expression itself. is no longer true. Cheers, Eduardo