From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eduardo Ochs Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: GNU Emacs raison d'etre - 1981-ish version Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 03:24:53 -0300 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="109284"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 14 08:26:00 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ7Jf-000SHT-KW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 08:25:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54894 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ7Je-00006t-Ln for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 02:25:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40114) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ7Is-0007fh-BP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 02:25:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x434.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::434]:46527) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZ7Iq-0000EI-QV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 02:25:09 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x434.google.com with SMTP id 145so859098pfw.13 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 23:25:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=cEy/anHkgtZ8XA069roWx6i3WNAYQ4d9yUwiKpVqa1k=; b=AYKgfyacoU0srH4QOVfuW+SvV7aRn4EbHlELbzLO1KiBGGoGgyUAsXbBQYNdxyyX9i 9YslZGvgy93OVTM5C/U1GVEnd+N50gm3Ed2AgmGdw4fi+Axd/DK4NmvaV8bzOY/zfPRw 80dnna0/y4QczguE/IDmxOyU+LDKolSymmVEnoqdFzOpdmRifMdKUg2Bo9t9aMbbhk/I 6NjALzKQvD70Lci+gxXzwp2DO9S7ZwMM5QByLhQb+le+0sY/gQmfGJHThSs70uzON9CF bkNb3IRsYxQg3dkzWlX73zY9IKHlEkD8Ht+Bawdcemv2aY2NJ4+GTRwNGgChf5ATqI+y 16Kg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=cEy/anHkgtZ8XA069roWx6i3WNAYQ4d9yUwiKpVqa1k=; b=Cky04W58idt0ddUfX/xJIscsOcA6IpNnXxrFuvW5xRAV4LxZDl+jSVCejYqkUliqHr 4NdNVIz5EfHMH/OfiygREVXi2Q3UUHUgCH+cKdXrqSh+zzPJ67KzPdff9qD49bABvj/K pIrgw5OWlaTvZUwJWshFBfIJQMP0Drp+eorBWoedTHZokhebiYjgxcGkLBPrOFghYJj/ 31XCWyng7RJiSppZadJn1KAmjsL9RFleX2MvDfAmc6VXsWJ7KS2hI//0xqlB606mm4Fx SDz0vrrBQV6WJZJQX3lEj9fFwjVZ2OUpbqC/wEpLcta+EUzF7qV5UDWr73YlP1k3zJ0a +pkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ZeNcxfnYSbquMPZWjljDyMjgeiKRdd9MihHjRiJ/0p9CwIFMh DAIRgOuqyqv7Z5Yxcs0Tjsvma5Fi6fRM/4SHrgNZXkjM7XY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwGZoFbWbJiMzZ0XECuO7POJCK3OOoX3mgSDVyrCNUUH2JSbdN6rZAs83MKCAIEp10p9PvQvPntW4+JLUWVXvM= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:8dd2:: with SMTP id j18mr2876323pfr.74.1589437505226; Wed, 13 May 2020 23:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::434; envelope-from=eduardoochs@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x434.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250212 Archived-At: Hi list, this is so different from the raisons d'=C3=AAtre for Emacs that are being discussed in the other thread that I felt that it would be better to create a new thread to discuss it... This is a section from rms's "EMACS: The Extensible, Customizable Display Editor", published in 1981 - : The programmable editor is an outstanding opportunity to learn to program! A beginner can see the effect of his simple program on the text he is editing; this feedback is fast and in an easily understood form. Educators have found display programming to be very suited for children experimenting with programming, for just this reason (see LOGO). Programming editor commands has the additional advantage that a program need not be very large to be tangibly useful in editing. A first project can be very simple. One can thus slide very smoothly from using the editor to edit into learning to program with it. When large numbers of nontechnical workers are using a programmable editor, they will he tempted constantly to begin programming in the course of their day-to-day lives. This should contribute greatly to computer literacy, especially because many of the people thus exposed will be secretaries taught by society that they are incapable of doing mathematics, and unable to imagine for a moment that they can learn to program. But that won't stop them from learning it if they don't know that it is programming that they are learning! According to Bernard Greenberg, this is already happening with Multics EMACS. Emacs lets people with very little experience in programming write useful programs that are just one or two lines long - and this turns non-programmers into programmers magically, sometimes without them noticing. In many cases new users start writing one-liners in Lisp in their first days using Emacs - so for them it takes just a few days to be magically transformed into a programmer. This is very different from having to invest time in energy in Emacs during years to be adequately rewarded. Disclaimer: I am ***EXTREMELY*** biased. I just grepped my notes in http://angg.twu.net/e/ and found more than 50000 elisp one-liners in that directory only - and for me the main raison d'=C3=AAtre of Emacs is C-x C-e... so these are my biased two cents. =3D/ Cheers, Eduardo Ochs http://angg.twu.net/emacsconf2019.html http://angg.twu.net/emacs.html