From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Per_Starb=C3=A4ck?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ASCII-only startup message? Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:45:53 +0100 Message-ID: References: <567ECD8C.1070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360zlhy7x.fsf@gnu.org> <567EE043.9020109@cs.ucla.edu> <83y4chgh5q.fsf@gnu.org> <567EED47.1090700@cs.ucla.edu> <83si2pgci8.fsf@gnu.org> <567F22B1.9040702@cs.ucla.edu> <2dc99848-b6d5-4f53-b22c-66e29d15647c@default> <444c19cb-4687-41c4-8291-481f5b5a42a1@default> <9e93866e-c6a4-42e3-b8b2-70fd6185b25e@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451259969 22242 80.91.229.3 (27 Dec 2015 23:46:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 23:46:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 28 00:46:09 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aDL0q-0000LL-6o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Dec 2015 00:46:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43089 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDL0p-0000xE-I9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 18:46:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34430) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDL0c-0000wx-Un for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 18:45:55 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDL0c-00075x-1h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 18:45:54 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-vk0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400c:c05::230]:36555) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDL0b-00075t-Sy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 18:45:53 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-vk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id f2so134062299vkb.3 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 15:45:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=5tXeGOh5iVIW1fIyh1ctUuWS814g7hDErdk37Xtm3c8=; b=KTXCmGseMeT7oc77063sBA0s1Q4KcEC0M8G4FKvfs6QEQ5nd2LhFTuYSuYP0u/B7Xv Xd4lld68yC3tJW4cfO4D5m25xWt4tZjI5LuJ81jYAhUliGt34UMa2kOo/Rm4SkB976aW h6dAuQsECYAHWiybNw21ormpqjHfWR6QkhrAPc66nOuaQ8hJOimmGBftYrq2kL0UAW+M 8zA7PK6lzwwYqEB1Exo64PU3SuGLjm4vZdGCzKdLoyHobZ+ffXHvKAxX/I32XNZDx8Z3 cVSb14TeXYyTdPusxhhtljX3xrY1p9hJbXkvNSSpqrfhswZCizSbBglxHREgoRWUQsgk vV/g== X-Received: by 10.31.155.23 with SMTP id d23mr29291705vke.146.1451259953400; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 15:45:53 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.31.15.134 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 15:45:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: bwgBlT1gbWOkebtRR2j1ik6zv-U X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400c:c05::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:196987 Archived-At: >> Yes, that is true, but not for compatibility between "apostrophe" and >> "right single quotation mark" as that imagined argument continues in >> your post, but for compatibility between "left single quotation mark" >> and "right single quotation mark" as well as less common characters >> like "prime". > > Huh? The Unicode _name_ of character U+0027 is... "APOSTROPHE". > And the Unicode "old name" of it is "APOSTROPHE-QUOTE". As I've already written, a lot confusion comes from the bad name the ascii ' has in Unicode. Avoid that confusion. And yes, there are some people who think that the squiggle used as apostrophe and as right-single-quotation should be seen as two different characters depending on usage. There are arguments for and against that, and you quote a lot of people who are for it, but how is that relevant? Maybe I agree with the arguments, maybe I don't, and I won't tell, because it doesn't matter. We are not going to create a new emacs-reformed-unicode character set now, we are implementing something that exists, and that very clearly says that U+2018 and U+2019 are the preferred characters to use for English paired quotation marks, and U+2019 is also the preferred character to use for apostrophe. > Claiming that Unicode intends this character only for compatibility > between "left single quotation mark", "right single quotation mark", > and less common characters like "prime", and NOT for compatibility > between "apostrophe" and "right single quotation mark" is, well, > imaginative. Where do you get that notion? Just imagine that Unicode hasn't been reformed you want, but that there is one character that is used both as apostrophe and right single quotation mark. Not because it's The Right Way, but because then you will be able to read and understand what I wrote. > To be clear, I am NOT arguing that _Emacs_ should use U+02BC > instead of U+0219 as apostrophe. I argue that Emacs should > (continue to) use U+0027 (ASCII apostrophe) as apostrophe (in its > own doc, *scratch* comments, and so on). Not because it is a > more genuine apostrophe but because it is much easier for users > (and programs) to work with. I think mixing typewriter text and nice-looking text in the same buffer is the worst option. A typographical hotchpotch jarring. It would be same kind of error as using straight ascii "" for inner quotes inside curly outside quotes or vice versa.