From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Per_Starb=C3=A4ck?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ASCII-only startup message? Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 17:35:37 +0100 Message-ID: References: <567ECD8C.1070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360zlhy7x.fsf@gnu.org> <567EE043.9020109@cs.ucla.edu> <83y4chgh5q.fsf@gnu.org> <567EED47.1090700@cs.ucla.edu> <83si2pgci8.fsf@gnu.org> <567F22B1.9040702@cs.ucla.edu> <2dc99848-b6d5-4f53-b22c-66e29d15647c@default> <444c19cb-4687-41c4-8291-481f5b5a42a1@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451234156 30887 80.91.229.3 (27 Dec 2015 16:35:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2015 16:35:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 27 17:35:56 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aDEIS-0000XR-1G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 17:35:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42054 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDEIR-0004pX-Dh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 11:35:51 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47497) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDEIE-0004pG-Rj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 11:35:39 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDEID-0005JP-R3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 11:35:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-vk0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400c:c05::230]:33419) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDEID-0005JJ-M2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 11:35:37 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-vk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id a188so172197792vkc.0 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 08:35:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1g/V3rbxhLrM9UqtDhOd6Pl7WcEiA2CZ4yt3z1xyLZQ=; b=rEjSBAslWQkl4cIJgW+iaqv3eNaVv9WBgPvq9tccHkrweLOQ+6R4/xSxU3ElfEj5wZ HqF0L/hqhRtaFcia4dayBgxhTcDvwJoXIpg0EkPMdEOVJPY90I+ezuB6Cn4HuK4FicB+ Vy2CYu9ANX3zEWAafo9C0wLH6H2SPBo6A1wxbKc/xdEcSI/dbzkhZc38zS+iJVX9PoL4 +NWD/ZjGxYqb8LmtXbwxxEDNNilvKyNRSscZd1C1HY2dsC6AvLBw0QoN1h+ftK6Bee0x 72YYMc3ZuZyPqlCQOfes30W7nqZf3Mj0ttlNBnpnHgkKdvp5onJrJRo/myzftF+/Audi r8Zw== X-Received: by 10.31.159.21 with SMTP id i21mr33221468vke.55.1451234137219; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 08:35:37 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.31.15.134 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Dec 2015 08:35:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <444c19cb-4687-41c4-8291-481f5b5a42a1@default> X-Google-Sender-Auth: u8ccYEH2eq80dSSJXwB_EtkUGQE X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400c:c05::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:196978 Archived-At: >> Unicode has muddle[d] it further by bad names for these >> characters. I think ascii ' should have a name similar to ascii - >> (HYPHEN-MINUS) which shows that this is something used as a stand-in >> for several different characters. > > Yes. And not just the names. Unicode too has a single stand-in for > multiple (2) characters. A single Unicode character is apparently > meant (recommended) to represent both the apostrophe and the right > single quotation mark. I don't agree. It *is* one character that is used in several ways, in that typographical traditional sees them as the same character. (Important for Unicode is also that no previous character set differentiated between them, because then it would have to as well, by its design decisions.) That one character has several meanings, as the exclamation mark "!" also means factorial doesn't mean it needs to be seen as two characters. Even when there are such "double characters" in Unicode often you are recommended to only use one of them anyway. That's the case with U+00E5 "ANGSTROM SIGN" where you normally instead use the letter =C3=85 (LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH RING ABOVE, U+00C5) instead. I suspect that the thought that the apostrophe is "another" character than one of the curly quotes wouldn't at all be so strong if the Unicode name for ' wasn't APOSTROPHE but instead was TYPEWRITER SINGLE QUOTATION MARK.