From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Per_Starb=E4ck?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs terminology (not again!?) [was: Apologia for bzr] Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 16:21:17 +0100 Message-ID: References: <877gact76s.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113625bc35ecda04ef8b299f X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389280885 12853 80.91.229.3 (9 Jan 2014 15:21:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 15:21:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Drew Adams To: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 09 16:21:28 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W1HQF-0006Y3-D8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 16:21:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52569 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1HQE-0002z9-TK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 10:21:26 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60206) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1HQA-0002yz-AW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 10:21:23 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1HQ7-0007FZ-6R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 10:21:22 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pd0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c02::232]:57755) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1HQ6-0007FO-Vy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 10:21:19 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pd0-f178.google.com with SMTP id y10so3318290pdj.9 for ; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:21:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=qB8FR76TwvI8AmF0x7umHkdhNDMmTqLXtlG1libEEZI=; b=w67Ue4ZOe/U0Ytmc3roCqr0RuXUnKqosMxE85AgGoAodpcTObeZdSsL4LXkX5bghu+ cSqNq8XUqeCzzqQZR3+vGMcxYdmfqwiq+cCB8Zo/GhCvUrj+oLjidxkGzHQ9iYJSV9S5 2aecjEQcHzcWi32Wegg1IWLcMiC5lgpNKiNJLUFwpvT7QCTA98xgPxPrYduzz394Z0Ma 0qDSfHiPPmL/b5NC3q9enpVKJIcLcW1WfP140nPabMTUncHtUjV8am68JTWNpqOASOCD dHR/3gZ08wEq25B64UiaDc/TpbLk+YvhSZobRqPTcOfeSpexD3aWaPuxpG1QFYOM6Iz+ FiuQ== X-Received: by 10.66.65.204 with SMTP id z12mr4357894pas.60.1389280877733; Thu, 09 Jan 2014 07:21:17 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.70.37.104 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Jan 2014 07:21:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: vABljf37nxbQNx6LnQ4PrnRoH4M X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c02::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167924 Archived-At: --001a113625bc35ecda04ef8b299f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 2014/1/9 Drew Adams > > users can get the impression that Emacs is not for them because it's > weird. > > If they in just the first half hour of using Emacs meet several such > things > > they may conclude that working with Emacs will continue to be like this; > > now and then it will turn out that it doesn't work as "expected" and that > > there are new names for everything, etc. Why not use That Other Editor > > that some other people suggested instead? > > Why not, indeed? Problem solved. > Then you are talking about another problem than I am. Functionality (and attitudes) that turn away those people is indeed a problem for Emacs. It is sometimes direct, but often indirect (they don't even try Emacs because a distro maintainer thought that it shouldn't be installed by default). We want those users. Especially the part of them that would have become developers. (And _you_ are not using That Other Editor why? Did you perhaps spend > more than 1/2 hour learning This Old Editor?) > This seems irrelevant to me. What is your point? --001a113625bc35ecda04ef8b299f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2014= /1/9 Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
> users can get the impression that Emacs is not for them because it'= ;s weird.
> If they in just the first half hour of using Emacs meet several such t= hings
> they may conclude that working with Emacs will continue to be like thi= s;
> now and then it will turn out that it doesn't work as "expect= ed" and that
> there are new names for everything, etc. =A0Why not use That Other Edi= tor
> that some other people suggested instead?

Why not, indeed? =A0Problem solved.

The= n you are talking about another problem than I am. Functionality (and attit= udes) that turn away those people is indeed a problem for Emacs. It is some= times direct, but often indirect (they don't even try Emacs because a d= istro maintainer thought that it shouldn't be installed by default). We= want those users. Especially the part of them that would have become devel= opers.

(And _you_ are not using That Other Editor why? =A0Did you perhaps spend more than 1/2 hour learning This Old Editor?)

This seems irreleva= nt to me. What is your point?

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