From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "T.V. Raman" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor / Text Properties Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 14:26:29 -0800 Message-ID: References: <87vbzqfgd6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83vbzkcx20.fsf@gnu.org> <83d2lrczi7.fsf@gnu.org> <8338mmcsd9.fsf@gnu.org> <83txf1blf2.fsf@gnu.org> <87txf133yd.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <83r4a5bj5x.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwktdy6r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83iovhb0ez.fsf@gnu.org> <87k3fxdpmg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837gbwbcsx.fsf@gnu.org> <87d2lnevq7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ob57rlkb.fsf_-_@informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385591189 21736 80.91.229.3 (27 Nov 2013 22:26:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 22:26:29 +0000 (UTC) To: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 27 23:26:36 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VlnZ4-0006lD-Rn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 23:26:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38042 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VlnZ4-0008Rz-Dt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:26:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38313) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VlnZ1-0008Qf-Fn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:26:32 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VlnZ0-0006Ap-7W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:26:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-oa0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c02::232]:41773) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VlnZ0-0006AY-16 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:26:30 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-oa0-f50.google.com with SMTP id n16so8337561oag.37 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 14:26:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=YK/LYlsD+QU1EvNq0UbY0FbhXuZxpX35tT/APdZp0dU=; b=Kf72xys5Oz7LfVUdNKB8KDlxk3AdWIgek2b3JYvLY++38yYWLZpYcV9ZP+YUnLmTCu Yuf1uyHJiRgjqoUti0qN/lgIh7uhy3azD/SqJmmIdGaydp9luImkO7aVvvOmtJh7/gwv RhWcd0Q3y19jUxlKH7BMh0/LqxEEjb+IMdOb7xGpxT8kOHQH947FyK5/IkF/Px9Y/ZqO UOKIPylbxvUQJ1hi/CyZwm9lqQkpAUwchz4/JWlZcD6Yp3p4Xq1bXUpc0/AWQNCgmQ44 pp+gBAkBLV4DasKwVhSbrCIVob8KKP6P4aqmZXO/42udCi/wQ6Duz+vkSEJY6xj4OqL/ TFOg== X-Received: by 10.60.44.178 with SMTP id f18mr16389205oem.43.1385591189408; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 14:26:29 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.182.112.42 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 14:26:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87ob57rlkb.fsf_-_@informatimago.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c02::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:165816 Archived-At: All that said, *every* known WYSWYG word-processor also degrades to using a dump of its internal data structures as its file format. Emacs has stayed free of this mess, and documents I wrote as a grad student in 1990 are still fully usable and live in 2013 -- rather than having turned into ossified bags of bits. This is a feature, not a bug. -- -- On 11/26/13, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote: > > To me, text properties, and faces as text properties, have always felt > like a kludge. > > > At best, they may be used to transport information from the modes to the > display engine, like the faces, but otherwise (apart for quick & dirty > jobs), it seems to me that in general modes sh/would have more pertinent > lisp data structures, and use them to set the face in the buffer to > represent that data structure. > > I know that emacs puts a lot of importance on the buffer data structure > (a sequence of characters with attributes), which is all right for a > text editor, but when you write _applications_ in emacs, it is much too > limiting. And a word processor is an application, with more complex > data structures than a sequence of characters. > > So indeed, when copy-pasting text in a word processor, depending on the > range of text, ie. depending on the structure that is copied: simple > sequence of characters, punctuated sequence of words, paragraphs, > sections, chapters or whole document, you may or may not want to bring > along the styles. But most often you will want to bring along the > structure. > > > eg. probably, if your selection crosses element boundaries, for the > characters > that have only one "tag", you won't want to bring the style and faces, > but for characters that are inside elements copied in whole, you will > want to apply the style for those elements in the target place. In both > cases, the faces as copied text properties are useless. > > -- > __Pascal Bourguignon__ > http://www.informatimago.com/ > > >