From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nikolai Weibull Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 21:05:42 +0200 Message-ID: References: <557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu> <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> <5581C29E.1030101@yandex.ru> <87r3p9fxm2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k2v0fiji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20150619090225.GA2743@acm.fritz.box> <87fv5kfrfa.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83twtzhi9g.fsf@gnu.org> <877fqvfvby.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83fv5jh8ls.fsf@gnu.org> <874mlzf71d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <558945C2.2010203@yandex.ru> <831th2h1m3.fsf@gnu.org> <83lhfaff0f.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435086364 13701 80.91.229.3 (23 Jun 2015 19:06:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 19:06:04 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, rms@gnu.org, Emacs Developers , Brief Busters , acm@muc.de, Stephen Turnbull To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 23 21:06:03 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7TWA-0000Yy-VH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 21:05:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47046 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7TWA-0005Yi-E4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:05:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51835) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7TW0-0005XU-K1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:05:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7TVz-0000y9-Hc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:05:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wg0-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b]:33401) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7TVu-0000uH-Pl; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 15:05:43 -0400 Original-Received: by wgck11 with SMTP id k11so17804711wgc.0; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:05:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oYFzF6jhrQm1wgm+vlK3UM7AwJs5TiL7GY9k08lTb34=; b=XO/5kNjuIXwNjKd55tX6euBhEyca9C7YsZEVOWeYiGD3mR1Mh+x6RTyeN8vrOayrwc s+I/cLPm9DTf+qXLOQ7L1+OHUdKMWuUY86apnrW17wie0vvmh60LcbyBH+lvuS6qwcF3 Ii6N79bt/7OwtadpSwvIHn46fk85JGDyp/WoisKDhfwtgwF/qroXNv2AlM/M/+XVmfqM avjZbnQPCuKuV4Ecv4Uhedz63F/QqHOgkV46SVmucEUjkMEzuao/EnOBjlTMR7SDk9Wv M+e6Cb/zZpHkRo5L9sCuaCAoVOVbJ5lG/clh3/UgWOy2LnnKhhFYjDg8EMnzXAuam3LE egBA== X-Received: by 10.194.52.37 with SMTP id q5mr64930678wjo.122.1435086342156; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.194.123.37 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 12:05:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83lhfaff0f.fsf@gnu.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: JrKvVam9mTYqw18d8nkf0Keraks X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187442 Archived-At: On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 8:36 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 5:43 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> almost all professionally printed literature uses real quotation >> >> marks >> >> > That's true, but most of them look quite differently from =E2=80=9C..= =E2=80=9D, at >> > least with most monospaced fonts. So the issue is not as easy or >> > simple as you seem to imply. >> >> Different from what? Do you mean that most mono-spaced fonts don=E2=80= =99t >> have nice-looking quotation marks? > > They are different from what one sees in "almost all professionally > printed literature". Moreover, they look different from what Word > inserts as part of its "smart quotes" feature, because its default > fonts are not monospaced. > >> Mine (DejaVu Sans Mono) does > > No, it doesn't (I'm looking at it). Its curved quotes look very much > like tilted straight lines. That=E2=80=99s a matter of opinion. While it doesn=E2=80=99t curve like, f= or example, Computer Modern Roman or, as you point out, Symbola or Lucida Console, they hardly look like tilted straight lines. See Tahoma for such a rendition. Either way, I don=E2=80=99t agree at all with the point your trying to make. The letter =E2=80=98a=E2=80=99 can, for example, be render= ed in two very different ways and we still manage to read it as the same letter. > You want to see curved, compare with > Symbola or Lucida Console. So if a user happens to use these fonts they=E2=80=99ll be fine? >> Do you mean that most users of Emacs who read their e-mail in a >> mono-spaced font may be confused by their font=E2=80=99s poor rendering = of >> real quotation marks? > > No, I mean that seeing these quotes in scientific and professional > literature won't help, because they are typeset in a very different > typeface there. So they=E2=80=99re expected to be able to read but not be able to see past = the minute differences between two symbols (which are their own mirror images, so really only one) in two different typefaces?