From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nikolai Weibull Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 20:39:07 +0200 Message-ID: References: <557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu> <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> <5581C29E.1030101@yandex.ru> <87r3p9fxm2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k2v0fiji.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20150619090225.GA2743@acm.fritz.box> <87fv5kfrfa.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83twtzhi9g.fsf@gnu.org> <877fqvfvby.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83fv5jh8ls.fsf@gnu.org> <874mlzf71d.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <558945C2.2010203@yandex.ru> <55896723.7070500@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435084775 19586 80.91.229.3 (23 Jun 2015 18:39:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 18:39:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, rms@gnu.org, Emacs Developers , acm@muc.de, "Stephen J. Turnbull" , Eli Zaretskii To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 23 20:39:34 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7T6b-0001mW-Hz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 20:39:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46964 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7T6b-0001RZ-0l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 14:39:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42940) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7T6M-0001RI-Sq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 14:39:19 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7T6M-00047n-0U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 14:39:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wg0-x236.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c00::236]:33118) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z7T6C-000468-7m; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 14:39:08 -0400 Original-Received: by wgck11 with SMTP id k11so17265744wgc.0; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:39:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iNtvH8vXKoPLi9+1x5xw5YkXgahwmCJ3WR3RCR/8+fY=; b=ijDm2aQrEk7OA/7kRa0Icyc4ddPBIDrpFNP3Dj0a7s+VBHBW9d+lqs9SDBmls06Z9C 95JISLHw2L5CeMo3PJkb5+LkXU2j4xhPRg9zpnhuNlTYf7TwBzBbYWd9ohTxtGLoaFY9 RabTcgETPHEPrJRbFF7klWCRKOXFpgQ+hnbaURNQGQpWvjouu/gguULxw8I5UDCZOqMe p2nOWC/WOiY5ndFQxYFIbZE3yHMqM89Jh5U1kZvnDXN8j0JaOnueYtQKou1itql8tVfW J2/gBFKtV/xPCJ8Zi06H5Mk+LnsY0ziJJEi/S3+G8FjyZA3cs1YMmozk6WOuktOU9jiB PgDg== X-Received: by 10.180.109.136 with SMTP id hs8mr5887746wib.73.1435084747479; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.194.123.37 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Jun 2015 11:39:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55896723.7070500@yandex.ru> X-Google-Sender-Auth: VlcvluucxpmjRgoWqV93fd39vo4 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c00::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187439 Archived-At: On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 06/23/2015 04:02 PM, Nikolai Weibull wrote: > >> It=E2=80=99s probably not worth noting, but that can=E2=80=99t possible = be true. Is >> someone who sees =E2=80=98=E2=80=98=E2=80=99 going to wonder what that s= ymbol means, whereas >> if they see =E2=80=98'=E2=80=99 they=E2=80=99ll go =E2=80=9Caha!=E2=80= =9D? > > Not confused, but probably a bit weirded out. Pretty much what Oleh said. Reading a German text where they =E2=80=9Equote like this=E2=80=9C looks re= ally weird to an American or a Swede as well. But we=E2=80=99re not even talking abou= t differing quotation styles. We=E2=80=99re talking about the same symbols (modulo the different code points), just rendered either as a nice piece of wrapping around the quoted text, or as four fencepost that keep the quoted text from walking on the lawn. >> Given that almost all professionally printed literature >> uses real quotation marks, I=E2=80=99d assume that those who are learnin= g >> English will also be given the benefit of them (where native English >> readers will have seen them in books since they were little). > Speaking of printed literature, I've just opened a random O'Reilly's book= . > While curly double-quotes appear a lot, the closest thing to single quote= s > were apostrophes (which look the same, but serve a different purpose). That=E2=80=99s because the book was written in American English, not Englis= h English. In American English, single quotes are used when quotes are nested. It=E2=80=99s (generally) the other way around in English English. Regarding apostrophes, they /are/ the same, even though they server different purposes.