From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Radon Rosborough Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Summary and next steps for (package-initialize) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:04:06 -0700 Message-ID: References: <83tw12cocz.fsf@gnu.org> <83wp5xat6i.fsf@gnu.org> <2d035e42-006b-e76e-2b3f-75f2dfd87bb7@taydin.org> <58ac4c14-3f26-4b21-806a-aa2326ce3d2b@default> <98f114b6-191e-43f9-b505-9362b9382508@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045ec432ffb6a905578987e5" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1503623230 24951 195.159.176.226 (25 Aug 2017 01:07:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 01:07:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 25 03:07:06 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dl35R-00064x-DM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 03:07:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51020 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl35Y-00046f-89 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:07:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48519) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl33L-00027U-0s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:04:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl33K-0007W0-8P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:04:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x234.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::234]:38421) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dl33I-0007Ux-Jw; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 21:04:48 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x234.google.com with SMTP id d202so4218039lfd.5; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:04:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=8dTxGazqR7Sf0gQGY65XuICWXU55S5YEANugL7dPgx8=; b=PwnBBN2HoeHJ9FOzAjKCeJABZE06FzIYRln6MDgBJNWh4mgFbAOisv4tD2RBukxlSu ATLem+jgWgSM4iHvfWhqu+lOBr4o+4gD7HiCLJKZRgazKn63HbL1RRDsGC2Xe/6KHqKQ +axlLVMvzBgg0mrtSyUc8J9iTj34KZG4lfl8Yh2+Jew8AZcZtpC8vxxJvOQTK450EptT KsAiOnB/mJzPFs3AVr+Mj7695KBH7rB7mjuge5oucThyAXvd3aPF+nFGchc3Pfp/IC38 bio+EFE79EPlsA1ycev1+G+oxgZaBfa+uIHYWmYcNJKh7qNWh+XqsoF5Vnxt49kp7m// 49UA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8dTxGazqR7Sf0gQGY65XuICWXU55S5YEANugL7dPgx8=; b=GwnmFO3lBvVtpb2HWBzi/QIQgtEyrAyKTzCj//JbRc89SMlumzzxAYomHegkbN814B WrWSIugjyD9pVVXfpr0/9759XCkPAb39clBsZHi/ftGnWENBbd4y3ft77AKiKFon8bDE UtvRpimYxvq936lKHW2ZF4Ua8285ZNaphIU6An8zUuVFQVxcVRF3Z1P89EYB9GJ7o6Ql nzYf9fTgYKr1aJOCIPCkBETFVuWjiuSJNlR576NwAm0JuDOK4hMyVhTlIZD2fDSL+K4w +euCAkSUQdBu8Y/gEnJNkVMhaospmqwLtx/W2Zbrs0R8gnZ/8vcUaF16PpemU6umbI3G wdOg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5iidF2wBvJz4rBLMu4pK5QSi3+SKDEgQCZCsm4J1AQbz+fk7Mmh xU0RJsN02nU2l7jMixBl+OarFh8xnw== X-Received: by 10.46.8.1 with SMTP id 1mr3901970lji.67.1503623087370; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.42.215 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 18:04:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217793 Archived-At: --f403045ec432ffb6a905578987e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > Deciding to "install" a package is somewhat analogous to putting a > library in your `load-path'. Correct. > That doesn't mean it gets loaded. Also correct. > Activating a package (`package-initialize') is somewhat analogous to > loading a library. Completely wrong. Activating a package does no such thing. > "Installing" a library does not imply that you also want to > load/activate it. As has been pointed out, loading and activating are two entirely separate operations. > Radon was saying, I think, that for the package system Emacs dev has > decided differently: it has decided that if you have installed a > package then you want it activated in all your Emacs sessions > (except emacs -Q). He said, I think, that this was decided because > opt-in activation was too confusing for some users. No, this was decided because we want installed packages to act the same way as built-in packages: being added to the load path and having their autoloads evaluated, but not having any of their features required. --f403045ec432ffb6a905578987e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Deciding to "install" a package is som= ewhat analogous to putting a
> library in your `load-path'= .

Correct.

> That does= n't mean it gets loaded.

Also correct.

> Activating a package (`package-initialize') is s= omewhat analogous to
> loading a library.

=
Completely wrong. Activating a package does no such thing.
<= br>
> "Installing" a library does not imply that you= also want to
> load/activate it.

As = has been pointed out, loading and activating are two entirely
sep= arate operations.

> Radon was saying, I think, = that for the package system Emacs dev has
> decided differentl= y: it has decided that if you have installed a
> package then = you want it activated in all your Emacs sessions
> (except ema= cs -Q). He said, I think, that this was decided because
> opt-= in activation was too confusing for some users.

No= , this was decided because we want installed packages to act the
= same way as built-in packages: being added to the load path and having
their autoloads evaluated, but not having any of their features
=
required.

--f403045ec432ffb6a905578987e5--