current status of citation syntax discussion

current status of citation syntax discussion

[Matt Price]

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Hi folks,

Am just wondering what the current status is of the work that was being
done earlier this year on improved citation support in org.  Has an
official syntax been settled on? Are there blessed citation managers and
export solutions? I would like to figure out a personal system over the
summer, and would prefer to adhere to whatever stand(s) others have settled
on.

Thanks,
Matt

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Re: current status of citation syntax discussion

[Rasmus]

Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:

> Am just wondering what the current status is of the work that was being
> done earlier this year on improved citation support in org.  Has an
> official syntax been settled on?

AFAIK: No.  Some people wanted something like [cite/type: pre @key post].
Some people wanted additional key-value support, something like
[cite: pre @key post]{:key val}.  Some people wanted @key
to be able to contain arbitrary characters such as punctuation.

> Are there blessed citation managers and export solutions?

ox-bibtex supports \cite{key} and I think [[cite:key]].

> I would like to figure out a personal system over the summer, and would
> prefer to adhere to whatever stand(s) others have settled on.

There's about as many systems as there are org users.  I use
[[citetype: pre @key post]].

Rasmus

-- 
May the Force be with you

Re: current status of citation syntax discussion

[Matt Price]

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On Jun 16, 2015 3:51 PM, "Rasmus" <rasmus@gmx.us> wrote:
>
> Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Am just wondering what the current status is of the work that was being
> > done earlier this year on improved citation support in org.  Has an
> > official syntax been settled on?
>
> AFAIK: No.  Some people wanted something like [cite/type: pre @key post].
> Some people wanted additional key-value support, something like
> [cite: pre @key post]{:key val}.  Some people wanted @key
> to be able to contain arbitrary characters such as punctuation.

Is the discussion stalled out then?  What would have to happen to move it
along?
>
> > Are there blessed citation managers and export solutions?
>
> ox-bibtex supports \cite{key} and I think [[cite:key]].
>
> > I would like to figure out a personal system over the summer, and would
> > prefer to adhere to whatever stand(s) others have settled on.
>
> There's about as many systems as there are org users.  I use
> [[citetype: pre @key post]].

(hmm,  are spaces allowed in pre and post? If so how is the expression
parsed? )
>

If it's not too much trouble,  could you provide some examples of code you
use to

- generate cite links
- export those links to (preferably non-latex)  formats
?

Thanks as always,
Matt
> Rasmus
>
> --
> May the Force be with you
And with you.
>
>

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Re: current status of citation syntax discussion

[Rasmus]

Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:

> Is the discussion stalled out then?  What would have to happen to move it
> along?

Everybody got time constrains.  Mine are binding severely at the moment
(not that I have contributed org-cite code).

I think it will be more of a priority after org 8.3.

-- 
The Kids call him Billy the Saint

Re: current status of citation syntax discussion

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:

> Is the discussion stalled out then?  What would have to happen to move it
> along?

There is a "wip-cite" branch in the git repo with basic Org syntax for
citations. We're mainly waiting for implementations making use of it, on
both export and references management side.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: current status of citation syntax discussion

[Joseph Vidal-Rosset]

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Hi everybody,

Thanks to Eric's example (here :
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2014-01/msg01262.html ) I
have succeeded to use ox-bibtex.el. \cite{} in the org file works both for
html and latex.

Nevertheless, I wonder how to get for org-file the org citation syntax
[[cite: ]] instead of \cite{} when I choose a reference from my
references.bib file . Is it possible to change this point in order to get
the same org file than in Eric's example ?

Best wishes,

Jo.

2015-06-16 22:43 GMT+02:00 Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>:

> Hello,
>
> Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Is the discussion stalled out then?  What would have to happen to move it
> > along?
>
> There is a "wip-cite" branch in the git repo with basic Org syntax for
> citations. We're mainly waiting for implementations making use of it, on
> both export and references management side.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Nicolas Goaziou
>
>

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Re: current status of citation syntax discussion

[Joseph Vidal-Rosset]

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2015-08-18 9:53 GMT+02:00 Joseph Vidal-Rosset <joseph.vidal.rosset@gmail.com
>:

> Thanks to Eric's example (here :
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2014-01/msg01262.html )
> I have succeeded to use ox-bibtex.el. \cite{} in the org file works both
> for html and latex.
>
> Nevertheless, I wonder how to get for org-file the org citation syntax
> [[cite: ]] instead of \cite{} when I choose a reference from my
> references.bib file . Is it possible to change this point in order to get
> the same org file than in Eric's example ?


I just finded a solution here :
https://tincman.wordpress.com/2011/01/04/research-paper-management-with-emacs-org-mode-and-reftex/

and here is the adaptation of the code in my init.el :

(defun org-mode-reftex-setup ()
  (load-library "reftex")
  (and (buffer-file-name) (file-exists-p (buffer-file-name))
       (progn
     ;enable auto-revert-mode to update reftex when bibtex file changes on
disk
     (global-auto-revert-mode t)
     (reftex-parse-all)
     ;add a custom reftex cite format to insert links
     (reftex-set-cite-format
      '((?c . "[[cite:%l]]")))))
  (define-key org-mode-map (kbd "C-c ]") 'reftex-citation))

(add-hook 'org-mode-hook 'org-mode-reftex-setup)

with # \bibliography{reforg} at the beginning of my .org file, referring to
my .bib file, it works.

Best wishes,

Jo.

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Re: current status of citation syntax discussion

[Richard Lawrence]

Hi Rasmus and all,

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Am just wondering what the current status is of the work that was being
>> done earlier this year on improved citation support in org.  Has an
>> official syntax been settled on?
>
> AFAIK: No.  Some people wanted something like [cite/type: pre @key post].
> Some people wanted additional key-value support, something like
> [cite: pre @key post]{:key val}.  Some people wanted @key
> to be able to contain arbitrary characters such as punctuation.

I just wanted to chime in about this.  While Rasmus is right that we
didn't reach complete agreement on everything, it seemed to me that we
agreed on quite a lot.  As Nicolas notes, the core of what we agreed on
has been implemented in Org syntax in the wip-cite branch.  Consensus
seemed to be that we should hold off on adopting any standard syntax for
the points of disagreement Rasmus mentions until we have a greater sense
of what's needed, based on real-world use.

There has also been some work on implementing the semantics for the
citation syntax.  Aaron Ecay wrote an org-cite library that uses
citeproc-java to process citations on export.  His version is in the
wip-cite-awe branch.  I believe (though I don't remember exactly) that
Aaron's version of org-cite doesn't support the full syntax in the
wip-cite branch yet.

I further modified Aaron's org-cite library to support the full syntax
and to do citation processing via pandoc-citeproc, rather than
citeproc-java.  My version is in the wip-cite-org-citeproc branch,
available here:

https://github.com/wyleyr/org-mode

To use this code, you also need org-citeproc, a command-line wrapper
around pandoc-citeproc that the org-cite library talks to:

https://github.com/wyleyr/org-citeproc 
 
I got this setup working pretty well with at least Chicago-like citation
styles.  More work is needed to make org-citeproc work with footnote or
numeric styles.

Vaidheeswaran also added support for processing citations via JabRef.
His work is here:

http://repo.or.cz/w/org-mode/org-cv.git

I believe that at the moment, Vaidheeswaran's implementation is only
integrated with the ODT exporter, though I am not sure.

AFAIK, that's the state of things.  I personally haven't had much time
for hacking on org-cite or org-citeproc, though I hope to get back to it
in a couple of weeks.  To be honest, I have been a bit reluctant to
press on with it because at least some people (Aaron, Rasmus) seem to
feel pretty strongly that they don't want Org citation processing to
depend on a Haskell-based tool.  

That's fine, but it means we need an alternative.  The main non-Haskell
contenders for CSL processing are citeproc-java and citeproc-js.  So, if
that's the way we want to go, someone needs to write the equivalent of
org-citeproc for one of these libraries: a wrapper around them that
allows the org-cite library to make use of them during export.
(Unfortunately, that means I am not the man for the job.  I don't know
Java or JavaScript, and I am not really interested in learning them just
for the sake of this project.)

I hope I haven't missed anything; those are my impressions of where
we're at!

Best,
Richard