From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nate Bass Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Google Gmail mailing list bounces Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 18:23:38 -0800 Message-ID: References: <20190218122758037230128@bob.proulx.com> <20190218134228038359383@bob.proulx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="168078"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 19 07:41:35 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gvz5y-000hef-V3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 07:41:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42757 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gvz5x-0006By-PT for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:41:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45233) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gvv4g-0002vq-Oh for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 21:24:00 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gvv4d-00074s-0n for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 21:23:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::136]:42943) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gvv4a-000748-Uu for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 21:23:54 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id l10so13716930lfh.9 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 18:23:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Mw4vLA1OIj3toTZGxWFrullUc9M8CQfjH/pSoz7F23Y=; b=t3jw9x59AtV1fy4zR0YkexKZvizPJiplUrteqX6p2nuoNAyoPE9w26WiPSfOhlJmb0 eyy4hQlQy5mqjfDkAkelzQ5oFyX8QuDcJR+evk/jFnpF/bSExO1hwPnUgDqRzVoQS+GA PN/v9gk5wED8rofkbjNHQgyAQKHXVfoTnKDSbQPWSt9QhikyMOqFYR0jd9oYoasN5WR2 4HvM10oF8mSDfgi+NmU7jeW1I+7dqYOujzw/BpZmQVHz+mrePTx5oAUdlE+kMkvDP3I1 Z5RP/ki6BvF/ixvJbxNg+m1eMl6ZXVGONVMICgHUJdtkdQeaJUpe6xCOhwzxwtf3NDq8 db9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Mw4vLA1OIj3toTZGxWFrullUc9M8CQfjH/pSoz7F23Y=; b=fAY+iOLkr4ufsXpkqTve4TlbMOaqr9Vpf7DihSN579+J7ctVSC2rBIvfVArOoUfkLW 6OzC6DnIrx/OuKxZL2ydRRQk4b5sRVd6ECkMuAUzLhvL+zALvcTt8jLoYGHS5aj0S6cS Uz8Y0c8Bgn37XG1OZ4dwW/SPELG+g/w9XRMLN6ZFilkqHnHJQ2crJUYLc+wdZuoTHi2K 81S7HustpPwkfdrOWZHj8nXSwqZnlhD0wLZga5ya/pnZTT2e+3c7+Jairq5BOVES4BPn nCcbF479ySZFqid2IHDfGo9lzl+Zt4TMh7VFbDgKhzpaKJD1wVvPZ1wfq4Wb2JQP38c9 qv4g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZxfjWmvqrLGvmEOIjVK7DQ/psUhV5j0LrQbjsMr0AuIfWzAkTI lXkE60jHvxE9Dxq802ya1oSwIo3/nF6nVCTwGKpUH4rwv2k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IZ2VzI7bh85vcK0kHP7ERCeL+lkXc3uvPOx1vonX+Ksxfp0tEY5xv1UQDrj8M7TyjROv6Ic0NHCxkK6Yg8ZwQo= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5313:: with SMTP id c19mr10966699lfh.152.1550543030077; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 18:23:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20190218134228038359383@bob.proulx.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::136 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 01:41:22 -0500 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.21 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:119460 Archived-At: > Has anyone @gmail.com used that feature recently and are able to > comment if that is how it is done now? It would be interesting to > know. > I observed 3 different behaviors when reporting spam in Gmail. Don't worry, I did not report any GNU mailing lists :) When reporting this current message (help-gnu-emacs) as spam Gmail will prompt first whether you want to "Unsubscribe and report spam" or "Report spam". Again, I did not click anything on this dialog so help-gnu-emacs will be unaffected. Unsubscribing redirects you to https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/options/help-gnu-emacs. There is also a link to "learn more" at https://support.google.com/mail/answer/1366858?hl=en When reporting other lists (for example bug-make) it prompts the same dialog except it will not give a link to unsubscribe. Instead, it will send a message to bug-make-request with a subject of "unsubscribe" and a body of "This message was automatically generated by Gmail." Oddly, when I reported w3c-announce@w3.org it did not prompt anything and went directly to spam. On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 12:57 PM Bob Proulx wrote: > Skip Montanaro wrote: > > A couple things here. I help manage mail.python.org. We do (or at > > least used to) see lots of messages which look like what you describe, > > but coming from abuse@yahoo.com. > > Recently Yahoo started enforcing DKIM in a restrictive way that blocks > mailing list traffic to Yahoo subscribers. I am away from my notes at > the moment so won't try to describe the details further now. But a > lot of people with Yahoo addresses have been suffering due to their > recent DKIM policy. > > > I don't think laziness stops at the gmail.com boundary. ;-) > > Agreed! It was Gmail just recently but people are people everywhere! > > > Of perhaps more interest, when I report spam mail sent to a mailing > > list to which I subscribe, Gmail will generally ask if I want to > > unsubscribe to the list as well, or just report the message as spam. > > That would be nice if that is how it works. I know it didn't at one > time but time passes and features are added and that would be a nice > way to do things now. Hopefully they do. > > > If that's a general feature of how Gmail works and not just > > this-feature-is-special-for-Skip, the laziness of the subscriber > > wielding the mouse would be pretty astounding. > > Has anyone @gmail.com used that feature recently and are able to > comment if that is how it is done now? It would be interesting to > know. Please do not try it with help-gnu-emacs as a test or we will > be in trouble all over again! But someone who has happened upon the > task naturally with a real spam message from a mailing list would be > the best case for information. > > However I think it does not make sense to report spam that came > through a mailing list as spam to the email service provider used to > *read* the mail. Since that will only block the entire mailing list, > or not. And one being subscribed to the mailing list is expected to > get mail from it. The place to report spam on a mailing list is to > the mailing list administrators so that the anti-spam can be improved > there. > > I say improved not solved. Unfortunately there is no complete > solution to spam because it is a people problem, spammers are people, > and being people are very clever. People will always think of > something new. > > But we can hopefully keep spam down to the level where it is not a > serious problem. For example the gnu.org lists I think have quite a > good level of anti-spam. Therefore I simply file mail from mailing > lists into my mailbox and don't use any anti-spam on the receving end > of my mailbox for them. If you do find a spam problem on a gnu.org > list please do make a report of it to mailman AT gnu.org where we can > know about it and look into it. > > Bob > >