From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Steven Degutis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Does anyone really use emacs in terminal? Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 00:39:35 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87bo8qvvkg.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1367732392 13207 80.91.229.3 (5 May 2013 05:39:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 05:39:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" To: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 05 07:39:52 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UYrfs-0002SI-LU for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 May 2013 07:39:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47960 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UYrfs-0003B8-AN for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 May 2013 01:39:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47164) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UYrff-0003B2-7v for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2013 01:39:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UYrfc-0008Lj-NK for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2013 01:39:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pb0-x22f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22f]:60596) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UYrfc-0008LW-HB for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 05 May 2013 01:39:36 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pb0-f47.google.com with SMTP id uo1so1496089pbc.34 for ; Sat, 04 May 2013 22:39:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=uqb0iKI3dFkTsrbCw6MMH/VRm/GPCcFhWeRF5IQr6Tw=; b=EOdP4RGeAl7K8NkO069D7//Qd2BjgeX5o734NFzkaRADesBjbhSCtw1FPQZCkNU1T6 Bsl8eMNoVCGprp79ssTYEbCofkqWS+w+qE51EvtqpFpQyZl8eXsjs8zmiwVj6Ii09gFd GggjLyMulYOPn0xteCXb10/gKBvWXxNJnK3Uvu6Zy55g32+y+Fw9Hjo95gbjPQ05CE9q 2QOpQ6F9c3aeGYHX8RNQVB8MetDy76gGOsiptQUuKAVmP4KmoFKZNbPsd2riegNfBF2/ 2DLIijlOlHvHH+vY3YBtIU7uYgKChRXd8CwI9DD6cB/aJD3o7LcZtcaYscCwib4xAEk+ m3dw== X-Received: by 10.68.200.162 with SMTP id jt2mr20400973pbc.138.1367732375440; Sat, 04 May 2013 22:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.70.58.231 with HTTP; Sat, 4 May 2013 22:39:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87bo8qvvkg.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22f X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:90505 Archived-At: But look at the bigger picture. There's no need to "emulate terminals" anymore. The vast majority of computers aren't terminals and don't have anything to do with real terminals. We're stuck in a circular backwards-compatibility loop: we need terminal emulators because our programs rely on them (less, cat, ssh, etc), and we write programs to work on terminal emulators because that's all we have to run them on. On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 12:34 AM, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote: > Le Wang writes: > >> The cool kids do it. >> >> You can find many screencasts of people doing everything in terminal >> and proselytising the simplicity and lack of distractions of such a >> work flow. They don't mention the lack of features, and the >> pitfalls. >> >> As a result a lot of the newbie questions on stackoverflow and here >> are "Why dozn't M-return work with me Emacs?" and "How comez when I >> can't cut'n'paste from Emacs?". >> >> This is frustratingly detrimental to Emacs adoption because the new >> user's initial experience with Emacs is "fixing" it. > > > This has nothing to do with emacs, but all to do with lack of knowledge > of said newbies about how terminals and computers work. Direct them to > the corresponding tutorials. > > Or direct them to emacs in GUI (X11, Cocoa, MS-Windows). > > > > Otherwise I wouldn't mind if somebody worked on the terminal protocol, > notably on the keyboard part. (ECMA-048 is rich enough, for terminal > output). > > I heard there are some extensions implemented in xterm to forward the > status of more modifiers than just control. Some standardization and > wide adoption amongst terminal emulators at least (are physical > terminals still produced?) should do the trick. > > > > -- > __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ > A bad day in () is better than a good day in {}. > >