From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: elpa.git and `new-master` Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 19:39:54 +1100 Message-ID: References: <20201216064753.iy5hw63luyi5md6p@E15-2016.optimum.net> <87mtyenmve.fsf@gnus.org> <85688208-f1f5-0126-6d8a-0e75eb6bb065@yandex.ru> <837dph85nn.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfdw26eu.fsf@fastmail.fm> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004c532b05b6a4f015" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33627"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emacs developers To: Joost Kremers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 17 09:41:25 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpoqj-0008fQ-77 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 09:41:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45344 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpoqi-0001zA-9n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 03:41:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35480) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpopV-0001SF-9d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 03:40:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x32a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::32a]:40837) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpopT-0003OX-G0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 03:40:09 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id j12so26500882ota.7 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 00:40:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mGaQjP6MciHemh/uDbJyPE9JWDwjga5hL3iXjeoQNE8=; b=KZXKIRWCDr9/6w9nNyCyqCP7FGxK+c2OdtXfvvCdel+SUi6sKStMlt3Nd7IoYjoF9L quU3HLYkOSnj2pGJQJ2l45UKU4NRbaIwtCIf4BTtl9GRO7ZaRdkBYLq51fJq/32B3o0T 4b8zD7hZoQfer6TLnfE5X6BhCga0uCDVjQNX2GEjgSh26GZamHbv9ZFayb4T3veuZQ14 iKRG9c577yXGzJGawxxFiDkQMY8e5mmsX+FLhFZNd8Z4hHgwZ/GvbwFeP2cUbGq+EH0g wxWUcobJx5OATdadEnWz4NfmYNFKOj+UWJ78EEJf5oPvOBljALBElsKf0Pgcscr+wa+q r1Jw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mGaQjP6MciHemh/uDbJyPE9JWDwjga5hL3iXjeoQNE8=; b=tmsJbgd0OeGwLMyCfOzYeWzvipoyjXw6wdXHIKyiZQ6j7N13r2/dK7yZmP5c0hb8AV f8QdugKNJ7LOvX6IkCmlPUlyyxBdfgJ3OmgnznoPBRgey+QoWNa0/CWVejLwc3BQ7uY9 3fYOEhnTqyebSrKsiilPAw72QUF3kc80Cc1mgOzDv+AZwWVhv6l5keGgvRb0KrLTwwox VDIkJXXc48aw8p635ev/Ecq/BL4aUyXcU8fMNCiJfCCJu6rNp/Oqwep//sfXUmF381Rb lRZnQcu/ewe1m+kwVOTfl+vMQTwXSgYsg6fKxhAC29fTyGCLpUIntWZSjL/05FKrpXpb M7zA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ofHXJx8sjrtlcQSM7bdWN3fVg0tyIRD43QJccUr1e4R12acsR //QPoFZGxY9Wv7brZtyXexL0KsHwB9ExlGIn5oE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxROuWupptTb5N5iUCrvAxj0hhXjceE7PB4cE1zW2B3IwrOdKtJKhwDFN0UJ81SF/8nimxVJ3wYJ3bdPqRHLvo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:4c3:: with SMTP id s3mr15076972otd.235.1608194405977; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 00:40:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87lfdw26eu.fsf@fastmail.fm> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::32a; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-ot1-x32a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261092 Archived-At: --0000000000004c532b05b6a4f015 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 at 19:18, Joost Kremers wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 17 2020, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> From: Stefan Monnier > >> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 15:46:49 -0500 > >> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Boruch Baum < > boruch_baum@gmx.com>, > >> Emacs-Devel List > >> > >> OK, I renamed `new-master` to `main`. > >> Will have to ask for a sysadmin to do the server-side dance, now. > >> > >> But before I do that: if we want to do this for `elpa.git`, why not do > it > >> for `nongnu.git`, and for `emacs.git` as well? > > > > Not for emacs.git, please. Let's leave that at 'master'. > > If you keep 'master' in one repo, it should probably be kept > in all Emacs-related repos. It's less confusing that way. > > I agree. Things are far less confusing if they are consistent. I also feel that people have focused on how easy it is to make this change technically, but have ignored the change management repercussions. In addition to communicating the change, it is also important to consider what documentation, howtos, tutorials etc that will need to be updated. Thie importance is increased by the fact that regardless of personal position, calling the trunk or initial repository master is the common and expected practice for many users. It is also the default for many tools. This is not a vote for or against, simply highlighting the point it is the technical ease of making the change is not the same as the impact of the change. As many on this list tend to have a strong technology bias, it is easy to overlook the impact of such changes and how they impact on uses who have less of a technical focus. We can expect to see an increase in messages from people who are confused becauwse the information they found on forums like stack overflow etc no longer works. -- regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --0000000000004c532b05b6a4f015 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 at 19:18, Joost K= remers <joostkremers@fastmai= l.fm> wrote:

On Thu, Dec 17 2020, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
>> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 15:46:49 -0500
>> Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>, Boruch Baum <boruch_baum@gmx.com>,
>>=C2=A0 Emacs-Devel List <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>>
>> OK, I renamed `new-master` to `main`.
>> Will have to ask for a sysadmin to do the server-side dance, now.<= br> >>
>> But before I do that: if we want to do this for `elpa.git`, why no= t do it
>> for `nongnu.git`, and for `emacs.git` as well?
>
> Not for emacs.git, please.=C2=A0 Let's leave that at 'master&#= 39;.

If you keep 'master' in one repo, it should probably be kept
in all Emacs-related repos. It's less confusing that way.

I agree. Things are far less confusing if they are co= nsistent.=C2=A0

I also feel that people have focus= ed on how easy it is to make this change technically, but have ignored the = change management repercussions. In addition to communicating the change, i= t is also important to consider what documentation, howtos, tutorials etc t= hat will need to be updated. Thie importance is increased by the fact that = regardless of personal position, calling the trunk or initial repository ma= ster is the common and expected practice for many users. It is also the def= ault for many tools.=C2=A0

This is not a vote for = or against, simply highlighting the point it is the technical ease of makin= g the change is not the same as the impact of the change. As many on this l= ist tend to have a strong technology bias, it is easy to overlook the impac= t of such changes and how they impact on uses who have less of a technical = focus. We can expect to see an increase in messages from people who are con= fused becauwse the information they found on forums like stack overflow etc= no longer works.=C2=A0=C2=A0
--
regards,

Tim=

--
Tim Cross

<= /div> --0000000000004c532b05b6a4f015--