Re: New build process?

[Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 17:58:39 +1000
>> From: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
>> Cc: rms@gnu.org, david.reitter@gmail.com, dan.colascione@gmail.com,
>>       emacs-devel@gnu.org
>>
>> Still, my main pint is I don't think we should get too carried away
>> trying to automate all of this. It is a common requirement and while
>> some may have been caught out, it is something you should expect when
>> working this close to the development layer.
>
> I'm actually with Richard on this one.  I think the need to install,
> update, and use any additional commands before "./configure; make" is
> a nuisance whose justification is questionable at best.  It's just
> that I gave up on talking people into catering to us dinosaurs whose
> paradise was lost, and Richard is still trying, because he's a better
> man than I am.
>

If you believe you can do it and make it solid (which I expect you
can), then go for it. I personally don't think it is necessary as we
are talking about users who are choosing to interact at a low
development level, which IMO is a moving target subject to change and
instability. We should not set the bar too high here - put our efforts
into improving emacs and not into improving the build process for
those who chose to interact at this level.

Yes, I guess I would be considered a dinosaur and possibly not even a
very bright one. However, despite some improvements, many of the more
modern approaches don't seem better. Ironically, I find many of them
dis-empowering as more and more of the process becomes hidden behind
ever increasing complexity, all in the name of usability. The problem
is, as soon as it breaks, we are lost!

Richard has certainly achieved some impressive things and I'm sure his
name will be remembered long after mine is forgotten (which will
likely be in about 10 minutes from now). Whether he is a better man
than any of the rest of us is unknown. While I may not agree with the
IT cloud, my mind is sometimes in the ideological cloud and at these
times, I tend to dream that we are all of equal worth and greatness.


>> Efforts were made to communicate the changes on this list (by you
>> IIRC Eli)
>

> Actually, I think it was Glenn, not me.
>

Shzz - pretty poor recolleciton stats for me then - two fails out of
two attempts. Really need to consider a better quality of red wine!

>> My objection with trying to automate or eliminate this simple step
>> is that the solution can often be worse than the problem
>
> The solution is, quite obviously, to have the configure script in the
> repo.  No, don't answer that.
>

Wouldn't dream of it :)

Tim