From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.orgmode,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: org 9.2.6 and org 9.1.9 Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 08:51:03 +1100 Message-ID: References: <7D2A3D8D-CB71-4B0D-8839-9633BD9F9C4B@traduction-libre.org> <874kyqcuup.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f07dc105985afecb" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="230964"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Nick Dokos , Org-mode , Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: "Cook, Malcolm" Original-X-From: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 27 22:51:56 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ia5E4-000xsq-9o for geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 22:51:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43500 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ia5E3-0006ln-2m for geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:51:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44995) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ia5DV-0006lg-Bk for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:51:22 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ia5DT-00055a-Ff for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:51:21 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x32c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::32c]:44604) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ia5DS-00052d-Vp; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 16:51:19 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id c19so20435697otr.11; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:51:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xVVeg1SqyXdAj0Lv0w2XOP4PBNBJKorQ1Uuf1GWUhBw=; b=ZocNrXM12ESQM94oIijuk7oT//fwfI9rO+NE5/gfEJeCcDRjazn77P4iC0Qar45LNS Vu1UJmMkCqDTqChDaOqrSnPN9CnAkr7UtZEv/jYPVRQKCn4cvDzVAoED/WnizeOiq6Xw v2iqRn1sylh1fbtU49PfTQSpqeOgpKPf4WE+Nes4j1ErfSkjt63XbdOXdaOxc3UWzeSE Sry7+Qi6GU643ZOM0Aq+gSK4HMP5ycawStaC3HH0BUTd74uVEdKWeojB7C+lvzbJhQSI KtUgTPRFdLbzqRLG+kpW/MMwxqKnkzYklUPI1PTVUjlw1mcz4TfCkU5/9SC4/stVHS+d BTtQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xVVeg1SqyXdAj0Lv0w2XOP4PBNBJKorQ1Uuf1GWUhBw=; b=Kf6HGCvpWfyYhwRmNdTEG7iwjiUp/1mBr1ozVqa4A4qL6+6mCL8/neArRx9qHSBGyt GErxp0Vm8uEVpNqKXdouJ3NM/tkHCcf2B7i9sjk3opLJbM7u6oSASI/RM05gu7xaFpDj rPemP9Esq12HxKc/uh76/0ioELEsOWKxvVweiaCCU4MTwrj94uSTSyaLeMDo7Z+TDKUH CH5b9HD1kBDhCX6M1eF04Lw5RNxz0/kKLdTafBuFf3tU5U2s7VUFMDoDyiCHOCjZGJxv OepEAmwzYtAA/j4r6lQxlPtSMJxUwpqZVne4qFUlb12x7YoTSq+S9Rse7ZUEfEOmGieu Mduw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVUPVfkS2e8Jc2vmkKBaXLTTShl4MsnYTLeTibi2OueA9hjpYcW AVEPslCUqM5OiFHcI6724M+OUaJI/7ir55q8Wac= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyKYfvbcnLWjnXUBJYDi7mG2AkBdZUsdtDfLYiEhoYL0P+x47DTXMAMGqBNkalMBy5SgF31CVx7oJjm1eLptQQ= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6842:: with SMTP id c2mr5129914oto.336.1574891475203; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 13:51:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::32c X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.orgmode:126157 gmane.emacs.devel:242808 Archived-At: --000000000000f07dc105985afecb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> But I don't think the issue is with package.el per se. > Maybe it needs fixes elsewhere as well, but it's via package.el that the > problem is usually exposed. Yes, but I think that is mainly because that is the most common way people install it. The manual is fairly clear on this - don't install org-mode vai package.el if you have already visited an org file (or loaded org-functionality). Package.el does make it worse as it may install org as a dependency rather than as a result of an explicit request from the user. >> You get the same problem if you try to install org-mode manually >> without package.el. > Depends how you do it. True. If you build it using 'make' it is in a separate environment, using batch and avoiding your init.el, so no issues. It has been mentioned a few times in this thread that issues need to be reported so that they can be logged as bugs and fixed. Unfortunately, this is very difficult as the package.el installation does not fail. Everything appears to have worked fine and even when you then start working with org afterwards, it can appear to all be fine until you try some action, at which point you get an error. This may not happen for hours, days or even in a later session, so the connection between installation and problem is lost. On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 04:20, Cook, Malcolm wrote: > Hi Stefan, > > > > I don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=80=99ve ever seen a root-cause analysis, but I= =E2=80=99ve seen many > problems that are resolved by some version of a =E2=80=9Cclean build=E2= =80=9D of org. Here > are some: > > > > - [[ > https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2012-09/ms= g01365.html][Installing > Org through the new http://orgmode.org ELPA]] > > - [[ > https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-08/ms= g00316.html][latest > org from Elpa error: Invalid function: org-babel-header-a]] > > - [[ > https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-08/ms= g00318.html][Re: > [O] wrong type argument listp... org-element-set-contents]] > > > > That's what I got. > > > > BTW: I now use org-plus-contrib in place of org with this mantra: > > > > (add-to-list 'package-archives '("org" . "http://orgmode.org/elpa/") t) > > (use-package org > ;org-plus-contrib ; instead of > org-mode > > :ensure org-plus-contrib ; following > http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/7890/org-plus-contrib-and-org-wi= th-require-or-use-package > > ) > > > > - Cheers > > Malcolm > > > > > Here's what I do, at the shell: > > > > > > > > emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list > > 'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\ > ";)) > > (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install > > 'org-plus-contrib))" > > I can't blame you for using such workarounds, but it would *really* help > if you could report the actual problems encountered (and then use the > workaround until we fix the source of the problem). > > > Stefan > --=20 regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --000000000000f07dc105985afecb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> But I don't think th= e issue is with package.el per se.

 > Maybe it needs fixes elsewhere as well, but it's via package.el th= at the
> problem is usually exposed.

Yes, but I think that is mainl= y because that is the most common way people install it. The manual is fair= ly clear on this - don't install org-mode vai package.el if you have al= ready visited an org file (or loaded org-functionality). Package.el does ma= ke it worse as it may install org as a dependency rather than as a result o= f an explicit request from the user.

>> You get the same problem if you try to install org-mode manually >> without package.el.

> Depends how you do it.
<= br>
True. If you build it using 'make' it is in a separat= e environment, using batch and avoiding your init.el, so no issues.

It has been mentioned a few times in this thread tha= t issues need to be reported so that they can be logged as bugs and fixed. = Unfortunately, this is very difficult as the package.el installation does n= ot fail. Everything appears to have worked fine and even when you then star= t working with org afterwards, it can appear to all be fine until you try s= ome action, at which point you get an error. This may not happen for hours,= days or even in a later session, so the connection between installation an= d problem is lost.

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 04:20, Cook, Malcolm <MEC@stowers.org> wrote:

Hi Stefan,<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /p>

I don=E2=80=99t think= I=E2=80=99ve ever seen a root-cause analysis, but I=E2=80=99ve seen many p= roblems that are resolved by some version of a =E2=80=9Cclean build=E2=80= =9D of org.=C2=A0 Here are some:

=C2=A0<= /p>

- [[https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/= archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2012-09/msg01365.html][Installing Org throug= h the new http://orgmode.o= rg ELPA]]

- [[https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/arch= ive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-08/msg00316.html][latest org from Elpa erro= r: Invalid function: org-babel-header-a]]

- [[https://lists.defectivebydesign.org/archive/= html/emacs-orgmode/2015-08/msg00318.html][Re: [O] wrong type argument l= istp... org-element-set-contents]]

=C2=A0<= /p>

That's what I got= .

=C2=A0<= /p>

BTW: I now use org-pl= us-contrib in place of org with this mantra:

=C2=A0<= /p>

(add-to-list 'pac= kage-archives '("org" . "http://orgmode.org/elpa/") t)

(use-package=C2=A0 or= g ;org-plus-contrib=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ; instead of org-mode<= /u>

=C2=A0 :ensure org-pl= us-contrib ; following http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/7890/org-plus-contrib-and-org-with= -require-or-use-package

)

=C2=A0<= /p>

- Cheers

Malcolm

=C2=A0

> Here's what I do, at the shell:
>
>
>
> emacs -Q -batch -eval "(progn (require 'package) (add-to-list=
> 'package-archives '(\"org\" . \"http://orgmode.org/elpa/\"= <http://orgmod= e.org/elpa/%22>;))
> (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents) (package-install
> 'org-plus-contrib))"

I can't blame you for using such workarounds, but it would *really* hel= p
if you could report the actual problems encountered (and then use the
workaround until we fix the source of the problem).


Stefan



--
regards,

Tim=

--
Tim Cross

--000000000000f07dc105985afecb--