From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New build process? Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 00:58:43 +1000 Message-ID: References: <20110726184220.GA6390@acm.acm> <87bowg6fre.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <4E2F2084.7070001@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1311779293 9586 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2011 15:08:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 15:08:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: david.reitter@gmail.com, Eli Zaretskii , dan.colascione@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 27 17:08:08 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qm5iP-0000SF-W2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 17:08:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40577 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qm5iP-0001mg-DO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:08:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:34753) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qm5iH-0001jn-TR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:08:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qm5iD-0006N7-R8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:07:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-iy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.210.169]:58870) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qm5ZN-00040Z-Mi; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 10:58:47 -0400 Original-Received: by iyb14 with SMTP id 14so2323847iyb.0 for ; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 07:58:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=86udbpRtdiDcaRatut4Fax3CdaRze1ReJ8b8kQnfqT0=; b=R0h+tBMQW/bzEoWVs6JjG83jAe4A2Sseb5PMtkRjilIIzqhoyiOoetT+P88ZAGCmLV kkNmENtuZL+5G6V27Vdo4uiOBYH9k39uT/lqRrhH8dSem0R1VFm0+tZYXytMbsL9ZF7h a5RqsyzJqbbUCKTF3Ka8xJNrWuSupnPVBA5fU= Original-Received: by 10.231.68.210 with SMTP id w18mr79913ibi.186.1311778724376; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 07:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.231.37.76 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Jul 2011 07:58:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.210.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:142391 Archived-At: On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 11:31 PM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 15:11, Tim Cross wrote: >>> >>> I'm actually with Richard on this one. =A0I think the need to install, >>> update, and use any additional commands before "./configure; make" is >>> a nuisance whose justification is questionable at best. =A0It's just >>> that I gave up on talking people into catering to us dinosaurs whose >>> paradise was lost, and Richard is still trying, because he's a better >>> man than I am. >>> >> >> If you believe you can do it and make it solid (which I expect you >> can), then go for it. I personally don't think it is necessary as we >> are talking about users who are choosing to interact at a low >> development level, which IMO is a moving target subject to change and >> instability. We should not set the bar too high here - put our efforts >> into improving emacs and not into improving the build process for >> those who chose to interact at this level. >> >> Yes, I guess I would be considered a dinosaur and possibly not even a > > Dear dinosaur, can't you believe making the build process simple saves > a lot of time for many developers? And then it is possible for them to > improve Emacs even more. (Everything that makes Emacs more stable may > save a lot of time.) > Come ojn - this is really getting out of scale. Currently, to build from bzr you need to run ./autogen.sh to generate the configure script. One simple additional command. Its not complicated, its not hard - one *SIMPLE* step. If we were talking about something that was complicated or a lot of people had trouble with, I would understand. In reality, this thread was really kicked off simply because the status quo had changed very slightly and someone was frustrated that this was not obvious to them and caused them to waste time. The reality is that if you are going to choose to work at this level, you are likely to see change and it is even likely to be unstable change from time to time. Get over it, move on, there is nothing to see here! Tim