From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.orgmode Subject: Re: org 9.2.6 and org 9.1.9 Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:42:39 +1100 Message-ID: References: <7D2A3D8D-CB71-4B0D-8839-9633BD9F9C4B@traduction-libre.org> <874kyqcuup.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> <68782497-408D-4E97-8CA0-72B41882FB13@traduction-libre.org> <8325B7BB-3213-4C8D-9925-E6621695918D@traduction-libre.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000037fa0405984e4eb1" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="63947"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Jean-Christophe Helary , Org-mode , Emacs developers To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 27 07:43:06 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iZr2W-000GTo-Jp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 07:43:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34776 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iZr2V-0005Wz-67 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 01:43:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54882) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iZr2N-0005UB-LW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 01:42:56 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZr2M-0007iA-Gy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 01:42:55 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-oi1-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::233]:43186) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iZr2J-0007fO-Vd; Wed, 27 Nov 2019 01:42:52 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-oi1-x233.google.com with SMTP id l20so19101117oie.10; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:42:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mMmokysBtZRjSroQy/4LzChZMBMFh9yDz1KE2Qx4f5M=; b=kLNwJ8BL2+CypNVMwgRdl0zz8ZztOQ6/cYF9Qr1yRAVwRFhrJUiNwti/MWb0eHEmRI OOV+4v0lKgv4RaI5YI98jy/kbLTVjzfmdPmJZ/ZhR9rMjJMR+dbggrapCrPKmcZlpLqm Zc5sM+iNXNs0Z4kqwn0tcJCK7KLUJtAqMB6Q0/bBCSL3zSO5IjDss57jKm6xR5CBy3Tt 2sPySm8YEO5DuIhCBkzau3pHxV4D4XOg7OXpqsII2tGqTd6wCbTofK0GC99burJaSKnk Uc7Z88Mgb7TaWd5yBiDn4djV7UJDI/HYyfHZ67vlULkqU9FtCER0ULiIOFAMYPw0i/mf xc/w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mMmokysBtZRjSroQy/4LzChZMBMFh9yDz1KE2Qx4f5M=; b=dP79gMF57EAK6EW5jW/UpMaOcJIjGsf4HWq8gcwTqclXNpd3SWiR1S99ls/NaLiutG SJdvXDp6x4LwB+hLkqpna3tpY029eri0NP+F4/+OoAZ7pHR28IdHvKvCHihNnp7wCdFP w0SZ/ctb4QARN7MTTw3kKi2aIN7oBT29EvmIp3GJ9t8yuBIolMVdSaXLkklpDforkjBJ VUfzg1PiORMmFTmOEAVA7NKo6ZzUVcCIM0ZIynvNksJFCfLZXDQzi+ss77whm9dqhVt3 tSsTlp7hOT9duAOOed7uYIyA5JxmamMgSF0CiysdkxAJ3bPy4RnRswnUQl2mkRedMOLM Pk/g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWXVuE2wG9la39TJUbNhgMaSpq9FiKCWL1OH83zMr+hFkj9b5Pz kMOWT9at5uVsToi5/sVFMAbiUBLXo01lPetVfTRiNA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxly0BSbZ3/CQWoUYCkUE/Ot8ecTFUd38LSRjyI6cMK81S9g9J4D2+8pRBCDCbqFWe4zguGvWnvQRRXUDF5fJE= X-Received: by 2002:aca:845:: with SMTP id 66mr2642383oii.137.1574836970713; Tue, 26 Nov 2019 22:42:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:242770 gmane.emacs.orgmode:126148 Archived-At: --00000000000037fa0405984e4eb1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" But I don't think the issue is with package.el per se. You get the same problem if you try to install org-mode manually without package.el. What is really needed to fix this problem is some mechanism which will ensure all org related definitions are somehow purged from the running instance before attempting to install and compile a new version. Provided there is no org-mode functionality loaded when you install a later version with package.el, it works fine. On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 17:29, Stefan Kangas wrote: > Tim Cross writes: > > > I would agree that org should be a package in elpa and not bundled into > emacs core. The user can then choose which version to install (ignoring the > package dependency problem). > > I disagree with removing Org-mode from Emacs core, as I've explained > elsewhere. > > > This won't fix all the issues as anyone installing a new major version > when an existing version is already loaded will run into the same problems. > Bottom line, as org stands now, upgrading when org is already loaded is > problematic. > > It would be very unfortunate if we removed Org-mode from Emacs core > with the sole motivation to band-aid an issue with upgrading packages > in package.el. > > So I would put your above argument more bluntly: removing Org-mode > from Emacs core would be to sweep the problem under the rug. > package.el is still broken. > > Best regards, > Stefan Kangas > -- regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --00000000000037fa0405984e4eb1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
But I don't think the issue is with package.el per se.= You get the same problem if you try to install org-mode manually without p= ackage.el. What is really needed to fix this problem is some mechanism whic= h will ensure all org related definitions are somehow purged from the runni= ng instance before attempting to install and compile a new version.=C2=A0 P= rovided there is no org-mode functionality loaded when you install a later = version with package.el, it works fine.

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 17:29, S= tefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se= > wrote:
Tim = Cross <theoph= ilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> I would agree that org should be a package in elpa and not bundled int= o emacs core. The user can then choose which version to install (ignoring t= he package dependency problem).

I disagree with removing Org-mode from Emacs core, as I've explained el= sewhere.

> This won't fix all the issues as anyone installing a new major ver= sion when an existing version is already loaded will run into the same prob= lems. Bottom line, as org stands now, upgrading when org is already loaded = is problematic.

It would be very unfortunate if we removed Org-mode from Emacs core
with the sole motivation to band-aid an issue with upgrading packages
in package.el.

So I would put your above argument more bluntly: removing Org-mode
from Emacs core would be to sweep the problem under the rug.
package.el is still broken.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas


--
regards,

Tim=

--
Tim Cross

--00000000000037fa0405984e4eb1--