From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: macOS support Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 16:41:17 +1100 Message-ID: References: <83fu4tjmdv.fsf@gnu.org> <20180321191903.GA38993@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83d0zxjk5p.fsf@gnu.org> <20180321201234.GA39094@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <834ll8k1tx.fsf@gnu.org> <83po3whzln.fsf@gnu.org> <20180323195210.GA41757@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <20180323214705.GA41855@breton.holly.idiocy.org> <83r2oagevx.fsf@gnu.org> <21725aad-6d7f-8ace-dffc-347bb75616bc@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c076c8c11f9f705684a39ce" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1522042766 29824 195.159.176.226 (26 Mar 2018 05:39:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 05:39:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs developers To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 26 07:39:22 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1f0Kqm-0007dQ-N4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 07:39:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54719 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f0Kso-0005E9-9H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 01:41:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57553) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f0Ksi-0005Dr-0y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 01:41:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f0Ksg-0007iC-T4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 01:41:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qk0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c09::232]:38335) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f0Ksg-0007i5-MV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2018 01:41:18 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qk0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 132so18900606qkd.5 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2018 22:41:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ttEZGCwQ2rjjWKPY4c6tzBuFthec/CSIwht02vSjLWI=; b=O7SbQVuyRPmPx0dO2X0/+a/5+oBlhEFyJGHaggFXxFLkyHpAFi0GWpT1OEoAdKEssb cUgsnMeWE5irs2gbepdM8r72DR8F5aUM6+m+B50vjat7MA7O4WTpcyGINR3k6HlSZNxF kyXLSuUqneZ11TSid8biTbqLXCB+oMLFHTWkA03diOAiKqlB8hdH1BSGObg9860H2bwE BOwpa/2lLkctSfKYpfeVLa4h9QnAVdnXDLiRWoxrSmABCKXqSQKohP11cCJGLpsuZyOS EuNUghoVODETQbTONihLoZjuBNXB+E5jWHkLyjFx2QoLwYzR6Ci6mJhxv2ubr1v0AAEP dPeQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ttEZGCwQ2rjjWKPY4c6tzBuFthec/CSIwht02vSjLWI=; b=DG+hPQhQhhjd3VISrGzVZcat7bcYmH9CuATBA02Hb/R2JgGeUtQxruHOBH1NX3qnbH fUd1FAXMp8vMuBLPDGQcBaMcvN2NzprPIQji48LNFP2GVNzVmmkLN2fz786fuaPCATYm NSKZKBf1VexaLx9dnMhubawfhL1Z8Hg6UYYMxt6qfDe4cgqiHu7Lx6VKXRTQrblqZ+yH Zgj343KfW1iS71OF4o2CLf5nof5Hrqt9Dkc79euQFRSQZTm7Y+ELkZlhvW+q8Fufx5FA jPeoox35q9UqLadAg4u0wHZpAvP7dF1RBi8HFCNiP9jnkOa/uNfw8yWQQ0TBsYkFC6Je koqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7FeWFCJFpwBeDvW/YQuHC1Nc4CD7+bKvsQ6FwzTbpn9gXT/wfoq VEJsTHTOsFHGtPdf8Gci9RmvZT+DefDKKP+1Hp8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx49VZRTV7PPQOTu8QAT25D9qmadGmNn3p5aruwKpli/U5CTBUpTlvjKY0wLY1P86jLnltSoRtYxqYrq9GNAz/Z0= X-Received: by 10.55.146.1 with SMTP id u1mr8784113qkd.327.1522042877899; Sun, 25 Mar 2018 22:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.200.52.9 with HTTP; Sun, 25 Mar 2018 22:41:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c09::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:224024 Archived-At: --94eb2c076c8c11f9f705684a39ce Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'm not a big fan of Apple either, but do use it (primarily because employers are more willing to support/allow Apple than Linux and I just can't do windows, so lesser of two evils really). However, I have upgraded my old mac mini to High Sierra with no problems. I can't remember when I actually purchased it, but from vague memory, it originally came with mountain lion, so that would be 10.8 I believe 10.12/10.13 are supposed to be supported on all mac mini, imac and macbooks from 2009 models onwards. My macmini is slow, but it was always slow. I do run Emacs on it. Tim P.S. I also will be putting Debian on my Mini at the end of this year. On 26 March 2018 at 13:14, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > Generally speaking Emacs and other GNU projects shouldn't bother > supporting > > platforms that are no longer supported by their original issuers. > > While I agree with this, by and large, there can be good reasons not to > follow this rule when we disagree with the issuers. > > > For example, starting in 2014 we no longer needed to bother to support > > IRIX, because SGI no longer supported IRIX. > > This a good example: I think SGI made a pretty good effort of supporting > IRIX for as long as it could make sense, so I'm fine with dropping IRIX > support at the same time as SGI. > > > As I understand it, Apple itself supports only the last three or four > macOS > > versions. > > Note that the issue is not really software support but hardware support: > Apple is pretty aggressive about dropping support for old hardware in > its newer OSes. They could make OSX 10.11 work on my old macmini but > decided it would be counterproductive for their business. > > > Stefan > > > -- regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --94eb2c076c8c11f9f705684a39ce Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm not a big fan of Apple either, but do use it (prim= arily because employers are more willing to support/allow Apple than Linux = and I just can't do windows, so lesser of two evils really).=C2=A0
=
However, I have upgraded my old mac mini to High Sierra with= no problems. I can't remember when I actually purchased it, but from v= ague memory, it originally came with mountain lion, so that would be 10.8

I believe 10.12/10.13 are supposed to be supported = on all mac mini, imac and macbooks from 2009 models onwards.=C2=A0 My macmi= ni is slow, but it was always slow. I do run Emacs on it.

Tim

P.S. I also will be putting Debian on = my Mini at the end of this year.=C2=A0


On 26 March 2018 at 13:14, = Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">> Generally speaking Emac= s and other GNU projects shouldn't bother supporting
> platforms that are no longer supported by their original issuers.

While I agree with this, by and large, there can be good reasons not= to
follow this rule when we disagree with the issuers.

> For example, starting in 2014 we no longer needed to bother to support=
> IRIX, because SGI no longer supported IRIX.

This a good example: I think SGI made a pretty good effort of suppor= ting
IRIX for as long as it could make sense, so I'm fine with dropping IRIX=
support at the same time as SGI.

> As I understand it, Apple itself supports only the last three or four = macOS
> versions.

Note that the issue is not really software support but hardware supp= ort:
Apple is pretty aggressive about dropping support for old hardware in
its newer OSes.=C2=A0 They could make OSX 10.11 work on my old macmini but<= br> decided it would be counterproductive for their business.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stefan





--
regards,

Tim

--
Tim Cross

--94eb2c076c8c11f9f705684a39ce--