From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gtk scroll bar: upstream bug report Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:39:39 +1000 Message-ID: References: <4E19DD79.3030309@swipnet.se> <87fwmd2qo4.fsf@pobox.com> <4E1ACE25.5090000@swipnet.se> <4E1C6E4C.6080405@swipnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1310514022 29598 80.91.229.12 (12 Jul 2011 23:40:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 23:40:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Miles Bader To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 13 01:40:15 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgmYn-0001cH-1t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 13 Jul 2011 01:40:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35573 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QgmYl-0008AZ-On for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:40:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:41923) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QgmYP-0008AC-RE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:39:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QgmYL-0004yV-Ku for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:39:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-iw0-f169.google.com ([209.85.214.169]:41770) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QgmYG-0004y6-Hd; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 19:39:40 -0400 Original-Received: by iwn8 with SMTP id 8so5931860iwn.0 for ; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:39:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=cBgVN1QUFXVbVDAZNRxqhg0dCxLIfTzuyjYdnBuo5Jo=; b=AOMfLXBhlrOu/2hU8dyXObypU3yHnXxyyvbwHEKcGXf5iYKQo3xgsqb1khrmC0KOig D0Wy7BopN+PhSv8jWQyDuueWr2rvnCV28MfUp//MW52ZfurBxBWdWZUXXGXl5Xn858tB Mg9ghimpRC8A+StFBg9aideBPSu+QowRiDGO8= Original-Received: by 10.231.61.7 with SMTP id r7mr400032ibh.151.1310513979612; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.231.15.3 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:39:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4E1C6E4C.6080405@swipnet.se> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.214.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:141988 Archived-At: On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:54 AM, Jan Dj=E4rv wrote: > > > Miles Bader skrev 2011-07-12 11.04: >> >> Richard Riley =A0writes: >>>> >>>> I got the impression that scrollbars is even further away from the >>>> Emacs model nowdays. =A0The minimum size requirement for the scroll >>>> bar thumb is more common with new fancy themes. =A0The Emacs model is >>>> simply incompatible. >>> >>> How is it incompatible? There were many positive suggestions in that >>> old thread. >> >> Certainly the impression I got from the old discussions was that it >> wasn't so much that it was _difficult_ to support the Emacs model, but >> rather that they wanted to _prevent_ apps from using such a model >> because they thought it was bad (for the user?). > > I think they want applications to behave the same, and the Emacs model is > late to the game (for Gtk+). =A0So there is little reason to switch. > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Jan D. > > > My interaction with GTK+ developers supports this as well. There appears to be a fairly strong GUI design philosophy underlying GTK+ which tries to enforce what they believe are good UI design principals and ensure consistency across apps which use the toolkit. I think this is a good thing, but it does mean we are likely to run up against UI 'reatures' which traditionally, emacs has supported that will not be possible under this toolkit. Whether the inability to support a feature udner a toolkit represents a bug from the emacs perspective is uncertain (I don't think it is a bug), but I certainly would not classify it as a bug from the GTK+ perspective - possibly a feature request or enhancement request, but not a bug. Tim