From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gnu-emacs-help news->mail gateway Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:36:05 +1100 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1318286184 11350 80.91.229.12 (10 Oct 2011 22:36:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 22:36:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 11 00:36:16 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RDOSE-0004eP-Eo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:36:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34883 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDOSD-0001Xx-Dc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:36:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:57502) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDOSA-0001Xh-FE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:36:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDOS8-0004LQ-Nu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:36:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-iy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.210.169]:57876) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDOS7-0004Ki-5B; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:36:07 -0400 Original-Received: by iaen33 with SMTP id n33so10426945iae.0 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:36:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=pEbcSmBUULbD659K7nMPd5sKrLYIMrhWHXZV8f20l/o=; b=pip8KdJVcNyRpkp31ppU/AgedGjPCSUDm0GGV1fHhc1iWPpy62IGDIqHBTnNCqCg2j 7XfF22e4PxDIVOEhnT9LXPa2+M4A6D8h2Jo30zFI5e4tLG7WLfhKnS2yT9r3T10RW3bE TorRUEZUh7Y8OB8V4TZZgUlHU11KSZkXGlNzM= Original-Received: by 10.231.20.227 with SMTP id g35mr2657640ibb.32.1318286166138; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.231.12.67 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:36:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.210.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144834 Archived-At: On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Glenn Morris wrote: > Tim Cross wrote: > >> I personally don't like web based forums and I find my participation >> in mail list based groups is far less.\ than for newsgroups. > > A mailing list is not the same thing as a "web based forum" (I dislike > those too), so I don't understand this comment. And you read and replied > pretty quickly to my message using a mailing list, so lists can't be > unusable. :) Thought it was pretty clear - there are three main forms of group based communication - newsgroups, which I like, web based forums, which I dislike and mail list based broups, which I find I don't participate in as much. > > I don't personally see much of a difference between a mailing list and a > newsgroup (mailing lists have subscription and less spam?), but you can > read mailing lists via news if you prefer at http://gmane.org/. On some levels, they are very similar, but they have some subtle differences. I can put in extra effort to configure things to reduce those differences - for example, subscribe to the lists using a web based address, such as gmail, allowing me to access the newsgroup form wherever I am connected, setting up mail filters so that the list messages get put into a specific mailbox and I don't keep getting alerted to new mail I'm not interested in, setup expiration processes to get rid of old messages if I've not read them after they have reached a certain age etc and I will have something approaching what I now have with newsgroups. Of course, this also ignores the fact that many mail lists are not setup correctly. Recipient addresses are not always hidden (as they are when I post to newsgroups BTW) and I would challenge your point regarding spam. I use to maintain a separate mail address just for use on mail lists and I found that without exception, that address would always receive much more spam than my 'real' address that was never on any mail lists. Mail lists have been a major source for mail address harvesting for a long time and unlike newsgroups, I have to provide a real mail address to subscribe. The gmane option is a partial solution, but I find its interface much much slower than my normal newsgorup feed which does not have gmane. > > I was only saying "deprecate" the newsgroup. As it stands, I basically > have to read both gnu.emacs.help and help-gnu-emacs to be certain of > seeing every message. I'd prefer to increase the odds of seeing > everything in one place, and one obvious way to do that is to encourage > people to only use one place. > and I was only saying that while I see this as inevitable, it is disappointing. Tim -- Tim Cross Phone: 0428 212 217