From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Package proposal: greader, an audio emacs reader for blind and dislexic people Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:13:19 +1100 Message-ID: References: <87tvhpx0fr.fsf@web.de> <87ftt9wpfh.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002d59dc0580b86909" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="95147"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Michelangelo Rodriguez , emacs devel To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 31 04:13:41 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gp2nN-000OdY-IM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 04:13:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47985 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gp2nM-0006sS-IP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 22:13:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55955) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gp2nG-0006sH-Dj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 22:13:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gp2nE-0003ZM-Jx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 22:13:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x32d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::32d]:38769) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gp2nD-0003WX-HE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 22:13:32 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id e12so1605546otl.5 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 19:13:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=d7YWsksPloecKSEtNP2uxCDXPpHhetqpmsVifecKAH4=; b=QjBRMWQGP3SUQ1tRxTWizFVokhXz97DlkuVl87CHnXrl06QbLdiDWAhncacLOgL0B2 Z45Vuppe7nkLwGmLX5/Ox0IVhY6zflN1dajFHtkgCqHTe6kfgWCHNzwvPmQVlKvNKUr5 srYDM9w9x6Uj6/lBwsUzS+mqFM+bp+igGuQjDE0wAkoSjrbLI4wV7pbAV+e1jvqzApuI dD4ysLfnumcn2q3v/uu4sQEUJek0I0KMgtYkW+OEKw24dPk+WkYg6wRfem7GHlB0cuhL toEatCV4B62iDm7lvOPSe7ISVNOhwGA04nVjfO3gR8ZFICK4MznMJCjV4AuS35EV/ZKf 9u9A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=d7YWsksPloecKSEtNP2uxCDXPpHhetqpmsVifecKAH4=; b=C49yIfsj0ovr+xkzUsHjUFKawiJDd6GYeMlt4Z4IDJmCWUTHxPui0VLjmgl8pNiXF5 UJ1ufwhKANFrD362h82ZTglIeHMI/RSYV+qYADgup91xMR6jnNk68/U+IVU9eqFTKtfz l/WmYQMfqtm+LRRZJTYfelEGCjIf9ro/tuoGoKJrIESV6/r96sptJutnfxxNdnPGkj0Z QBV9U0dMNdU8SkDm1fwYHVf8byRS8TvlXtu289Yz55ogr+qmAiAF+ibvL4B4TwOLWqo3 MUP8AGxmCNnRwSSHJg3eQ8SBxuI3AGNeaBDJPNo6AgKOGHl/EtI6TCoebATQH21sJ0Yz QtBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdWQtRMz85yI9T0NEdcJrgOarYuH+oVMRKmk6eM4mKHzqGYDXBV WfsUQdB0no0wlo8PykyUnd/mO0spvw5BIDUrc58= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7Gz9L3e8jk+1c6UiNRx2ixsrv8NZTccV9kFvEyhhXChsGdQa5Rm8r4CkefIbriHtdv4ou1bsKF8OXg1iUtkWE= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:2f66:: with SMTP id h93mr25464611otb.165.1548904410469; Wed, 30 Jan 2019 19:13:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87ftt9wpfh.fsf@web.de> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::32d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:232846 Archived-At: --0000000000002d59dc0580b86909 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I responded to the message because I use an Emacs which converts buffers to spoken text on a daily basis and because I have written a number of speech services, so have some familiarity with the area. I've also made extensive use of both Emacspeak and speechd.el. I suspect there has been few other responses because this is not something which many people want or have thought about. There are also lots of programs out there which can turn text of various formats into speech and probably only a small number of people who would find doing so from within emacs much benefit. I didn't reject the package. I asked what the package did that was different to existing libraries which I felt provided very similar functionality to what is being proposed. It still isn't clear to me what the proposed package would add that isn't available in (for example) speechd.el. In fact, the proposed package seems to be a subset of what is available in speechd.el, Rather than having multiple packages that do very similar things, I would rather see that effort all pulling in the same direction on a single package. I don't agree that everything should go into GNU ELPA just because it can The thing about GNU ELPA is that all the packages in there are actively maintained and kept up to date with current version of Emacs. The mor packages in there, the more work is required to release new versions of Emacs. IMO the GNU ELPA repository is really for packages that represent core Emacs functionality. For non-core things, we have MELPA, which sounds like a better fit for this package. Regardless, I think the better approach is to first develop and release the package in MELPA. If it becomes popular and the community believes it would be a good fit for GNU ELPA, it can be moved over to that repository. On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 13:06, Michael Heerdegen wrote: > Tim Cross writes: > > > speechd.el is not part of core emacs and therefore is not in the GNU > > ELPA repository. It is GPL'd. With something like the package you are > > suggesting, you are probably best off developing it as a separate > > project and once it becomes mature, see what interest there is in > > having it moved into becoming part of the Emacs project. I suspect > > this is unlikely as it isn't core Emacs functionality, but you never > > know. Of course, that doesn't mean it cannot be a GNU project. > > > > BTW, you may want to choose a different name from greader - there have > > been packages in the past called greader, which were interfaces to the > > old Google Reader RSS interface. > > I think you are confusing me with Michelangelo, I'm someone else. > > I don't know much about the matter, but I wanted to understand why you > rejected the suggested package and why no one else commented. > > Maybe it would help us who aren't that familiar with the matter if > Michelangelo could post his suggested package, or a link to it, so that > we know what we speak about. > > BTW I had the impression that you objected that Michelangelos package > doesn't use speech-dispatcher, but AFAIU he told that it does. > > Anyway, if we haven't something like this yet in Gnu Elpa, if it's > useful, why not add it there. I didn't mean to add it to the core > distribution of course. > > > Michael. > -- regards, Tim -- Tim Cross --0000000000002d59dc0580b86909 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I responded to the message because I use an Emacs whi= ch converts buffers to spoken text on a daily basis and because I have writ= ten a number of speech services, so have some familiarity with the area. I&= #39;ve also made extensive use of both Emacspeak and speechd.el. I suspect = there has been few other responses because this is not something which many= people want or have thought about. There are also lots of programs out the= re which can turn text of various formats into speech and probably only a s= mall number of people who would find doing so from within emacs much benefi= t.

I didn't reject the package. I asked what the pa= ckage did that was different to existing libraries which I felt provided ve= ry similar functionality to what is being proposed.=C2=A0 It still isn'= t clear to me what the proposed package would add that isn't available = in (for example) speechd.el. In fact, the proposed package seems to be a su= bset of what is available in speechd.el, Rather than having multiple packag= es that do very similar things, I would rather see that effort all pulling = in the same direction on a single package.=C2=A0

I don&#= 39;t agree that everything should go into GNU ELPA just because it can The = thing about GNU ELPA is that all the packages in there are actively maintai= ned and kept up to date with current version of Emacs. The mor packages in = there, the more work is required to release new versions of Emacs. IMO the = GNU ELPA repository is really for packages that represent core Emacs functi= onality. For non-core things, we have MELPA, which=C2=A0 sounds like a bett= er fit for this package.=C2=A0

Regardless, I think= the better approach is to first develop and release the package in MELPA. = If it becomes popular and the community believes it would be a good fit for= GNU ELPA, it can be moved over to that repository.=C2=A0

On Thu, 31 J= an 2019 at 13:06, Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> wrote:
Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:

> speechd.el is not part of core emacs and therefore is not in the GNU > ELPA repository. It is GPL'd. With something like the package you = are
> suggesting, you are probably best off developing it as a separate
> project and once it becomes mature, see what interest there is in
> having it moved into becoming part of the Emacs project. I suspect
> this is unlikely as it isn't core Emacs functionality, but you nev= er
> know. Of course, that doesn't mean it cannot be a GNU project.
>
> BTW, you may want to choose a different name from greader - there have=
> been packages in the past called greader, which were interfaces to the=
> old Google Reader RSS interface.

I think you are confusing me with Michelangelo, I'm someone else.

I don't know much about the matter, but I wanted to understand why you<= br> rejected the suggested package and why no one else commented.

Maybe it would help us who aren't that familiar with the matter if
Michelangelo could post his suggested package, or a link to it, so that
we know what we speak about.

BTW I had the impression that you objected that Michelangelos package
doesn't use speech-dispatcher, but AFAIU he told that it does.

Anyway, if we haven't something like this yet in Gnu Elpa, if it's<= br> useful, why not add it there.=C2=A0 I didn't mean to add it to the core=
distribution of course.


Michael.


--
regards,

Tim

--
Tim Cross

--0000000000002d59dc0580b86909--