All, I just downloaded Emacs 24.4 and found that the function 'ad-start-advice was no longer defined. I looked at the NEWS - no mention of the function being deprecated. I looked at the "documentation" (comment section in advice.el) and all references to start/stop had been removed. I looked through the past year and a half of the devel mailing list - and the only subject line that contained advice was the request to not remove advice documentation. I'm not reporting this as a bug, because I can just update my code to work around this, but I do think that the changes made to this package could have been handled more gracefully. Whatever you think of people (over)using 'advice, the 'ad-start-advice and 'ad-stop-advice were a part of the tutorial and documentation in 24.3. TJ ps. This is my default signature, I didn't customize it for the purpose of this post. -- Trey Jackson bigfaceworm@gmail.com "Like any truly useful program, `hello' contains a built-in mail reader." -- GNU's Bulletin, July 1996