From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: James Freer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs keyboard Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 22:53:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <86ehhz7yvj.fsf@w2139spb.ru.yotateam.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1359068016 24684 80.91.229.3 (24 Jan 2013 22:53:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 22:53:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Filipp Gunbin Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 24 23:53:56 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TyVg9-00030S-Ti for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 23:53:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55648 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TyVfs-0004oS-J1 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:53:36 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40032) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TyVfk-0004oK-BE for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:53:31 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TyVfi-00015s-35 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:53:28 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lb0-f170.google.com ([209.85.217.170]:43687) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TyVfh-00014B-Rx for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 17:53:26 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lb0-f170.google.com with SMTP id ge1so4535976lbb.29 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:53:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=R4JOcTT2OUL6bsAP/OvxtmFrjHxwCdPUX1BmpMtBAWk=; b=QTZLBQt4aypTdXvZgr52ApOx/H64glyAWNJaYfU1imrZIpkyS0+8LKDwzcJT5IrMny k5VaP11I64NFeTBHOu4sXmXLzYqyghFVdvsOdzLhTr0TIsZ33noksNaH45gkWB/vR0wm yKBBrqDGwwnbYS2nxyDQ/l++xgGwFo/x85fvrmhkkb1ud7PEIrZPIolcGkW9qpgJ2fpi fwkxlbp7P36B2upOMLXuE1GNZuvfGS4wCDZSu/EoZB/VQAYt5RlOUEoI8r+s9P5wlaJ1 LO5SYcmF7i8uLh+/83jO14hP84Kg7fqYwyhXa045ViZQcYzpWFVPnKKyIpjGAx2ZQGTT ebTw== X-Received: by 10.112.40.228 with SMTP id a4mr1427882lbl.26.1359068004134; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:53:24 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.114.15.165 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:53:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <86ehhz7yvj.fsf@w2139spb.ru.yotateam.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.217.170 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:88802 Archived-At: On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Filipp Gunbin wrote: > On 05/01/2013 04:33, David Combs wrote: > >> I find that standard keyboards, with the control-key down at the >> bottom, a real pain to use with emacs, vi, and any other program >> that uses control-chars as commands. >> >> Sun (er, oracle) makes that type of keyboard, but >> also makes one with the control key immediately left >> of the "A" key, where it was on the original >> teletype-like machine (name escapes me now, but it >> ended in "33"). >> >> That placement sure makes it easier to use programs >> like emacs and vi. >> >> David > > But, with control in the home row you lose symmetry. I find it most > convenient to press all modifiers with one hand and the actual key with > another. That would not be possible with one control in all cases. And > with chords consisting only of Control, Alt and Shift, it's much less > pain to have Control at the bottom... Control in the home row is best > for simple keys like `C-f', but what to do with `C-M-t', for example? > > -- > Filipp Gunbin Having done a bit of experimenting i agree. However, making capslock control, keeping symmetry in place (with the two ctrl bottom left and bottom right), the F12 or unused windows keys (bottom next to alt on Uk keyboard anyway) is worth trying. james