From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philipp Stephani Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#45012: 27.1.50; Emacs 27.1 release archive missing emacs-module.h Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2020 15:55:46 +0100 Message-ID: References: <83v9dkf594.fsf@gnu.org> <83tut4f46r.fsf@gnu.org> <83sg8of3ag.fsf@gnu.org> <83k0tuagvh.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31869"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 45012@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 12 19:50:45 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ko9ye-0008B2-MF for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 19:50:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35732 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ko9yc-00045w-Gf for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 13:50:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38204) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ko9ks-00061O-1o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 13:36:30 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:34911) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ko9kr-0008Iy-Ne for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 13:36:29 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ko6KU-0004XS-7l for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 09:57:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Philipp Stephani Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2020 14:57:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 45012 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 45012-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B45012.160778496517223 (code B ref 45012); Sat, 12 Dec 2020 14:57:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 45012) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Dec 2020 14:56:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46273 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ko6JZ-0004Ti-3k for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 09:56:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-oi1-f175.google.com ([209.85.167.175]:36268) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ko6JW-0004Sv-Ry for 45012@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 09:56:03 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-oi1-f175.google.com with SMTP id 9so6448663oiq.3 for <45012@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 06:56:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Tv420iCkVTlX20ob9AWNpQJ77/J+bwSss6MvV4ZnpvU=; b=NI/3ZMxI/Q22rYEFY0Q9ldyy0zPal7LjBf1ISncNzUdhqP12/8utmyGWJ4LYUUnFYG 74jhQZACVKdOZRclIiBZpEOGN7L9dW1/1zuVrNnRajxDPfkeuEJVLoJJ415Fiaep/OGa LpYHasA+YcblXJJ51/U/NWifEyLajfXQ1YVOhqZSmQwhzlP5fyoQ+kLaM/xBWMUwWu7K O3EzwFiuEwDU3weFTYDxZG1bS4OPHABbnkP+6nYU9ov8jKcJ7O+x4icObFKZhuz9FWR9 w8hH3oN9tnbhYKMz2ft45NDZ2//6exs6HFTYV/PQgRgzRg2NZXbYoDRI5eZv9xR717at fudA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Tv420iCkVTlX20ob9AWNpQJ77/J+bwSss6MvV4ZnpvU=; b=uJmSx00BCHMOQ42RewB2UbQSBOJ3PAnDuAV5XVidlmXC52yCQPiThRQn1VUdjpL+eo OGZ62E20OJC1Yd2GypjDEiNu/cdV/YdQ0qBVYLn01jACeqV074F++CSr6NUGPR2Rlg/6 0KW7+JgyZa29LwS98kK3RXFC9qnuPAKLLK9dEpdgzwK1e44BXTOiGqA6qj6mJJCfRodS aCVklmrtjdV4vZAkxidUPyWx7opoJIws0lqtF17tqVtvOVPRUzYErB7dojBzGUWL2yjd dKa+uSx9vaUtdmDImWliOeSve8VII7108+rsU1pCjFOO2r7q9Bu/ORXZ/QmOgCWnng4P uxxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530eMWCh6rSEluxSre6XNH2HYpL/Ht8Hlz/hKE+duC7QOi+8VNTT TXEuhbtTb9bABNNE7byPvYUpX4TR67kp/XbLLOo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzb1YfaLyv/9QHA7DpwGi7pG2XGiFxaPbQ1ZTy9ZAbU3qwEABIU3ZQfqgHVl5jcEs0OKIDXuaP/34nFZSvPQhY= X-Received: by 2002:a54:4881:: with SMTP id r1mr12747318oic.9.1607784957129; Sat, 12 Dec 2020 06:55:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83k0tuagvh.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:195845 Archived-At: Am So., 6. Dez. 2020 um 20:12 Uhr schrieb Eli Zaretskii : > > > From: Philipp Stephani > > Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 18:13:30 +0100 > > Cc: 45012@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > > I'm making a step back and asking why you thought it was a problem > > > that emacs-module.h was not part of the release tarball. It gets > > > built as part of Emacs, so once Emacs is built, the header is > > > available. So why do you want it to be in the tarball? > > > > Concretely, I'm using emacs-module.h for my Go bindings to the module > > API (https://godoc.org/github.com/phst/emacs). The compilation of the > > library naturally requires emacs-module.h, but not Emacs. > > So you will build the module, but never test it or use it? Is that a > reasonably practical use case? It depends what "you" is. "You" could be a continuous build system that's capable of compiling C code, but not of running Emacs. That's not far-fetched; compiling C code is far more common than running Emacs, and therefore is better supported by build systems. Or, the tests for the module aren't written in ELisp. It's entirely reasonable to write the tests in the language that the module is written in, and e.g. mock out the emacs_env object. Or: the module provides only trivial wrappers around existing complex functions, and those implementation functions have tests written in another language. > > > Somewhat more abstractly, Emacs modules are independent from Emacs, > > and Emacs isn't needed (and shouldn't be needed) to build them. > > If you just build a module and never use it, perhaps. Once you want > to use it, you need Emacs. See above, "you" can be non-human users that can't or don't need to use Emacs in any meaningful way. > > > Moreover, the build process for Emacs is rather involved, requiring > > multiple steps lots of external binaries such as the GNU Autotools, > > etc., while building a module only requires a C compiler (or compiler > > for whatever language the module is written in) and a linker that > > produces shared objects. > > Most people nowadays don't build their Emacs, they get it from a > distribution. That distribution will (or should) provide > emacs-module.h as well. That only works for non-hermetic builds. Hermetic builds (such as the Bazel builds in my example) need to ship all dependencies and can't rely on local distributions. CI/CD systems also tend to not have a full GNU/Linux distribution with Linux installed, or they run builds in a sandbox that doesn't allow access to local files (for hermeticity or security), or similar. > > So I'm still not sure we have a good reason to revert the decision we > made for Emacs 27 regarding emacs-module.h exclusion. Quoting the commit message, the only reason given for not including emacs-module.h is "it's too much hassle", without any explanation what this "hassle" consists in and why it is "too much". (The release tarball also includes .elc files, and those are a much bigger hassle to build.) Rather, this decision shifts the hassle to the users.