From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Philipp Stephani Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Concurrency, again Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 13:30:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <86k2dk77w6.fsf@molnjunk.nocrew.org> <9D64B8EA-DB52-413D-AE6A-264416C391F3@iotcl.com> <83int1g0s5.fsf@gnu.org> <83twckekqq.fsf@gnu.org> <83mvi9a3mh.fsf@gnu.org> <20161012165911.58437154@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <20161012173314.799d1dc5@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <8360owaj2s.fsf@gnu.org> <20161013092701.77461800@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb03ddc40123f053fb082cc X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1477403281 19457 195.159.176.226 (25 Oct 2016 13:48:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 13:48:01 +0000 (UTC) To: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 25 15:47:53 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bz24x-0003t4-Ot for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 15:47:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54627 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bz250-0007Qy-1c for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 09:47:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58326) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bz1o4-00028i-Fb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 09:30:21 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bz1o1-0000FD-MJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 09:30:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x22e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::22e]:40311) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bz1o1-0000Ew-Cp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 09:30:17 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id o16so10418545lff.7 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 06:30:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=78B+U/JydD4nuvCNI8Q3jUNnuA4/ivOZYYR+RBsWh78=; b=ATToUWDsr9TqRoJ1Rq/fodRfqzruiN6wAs+ofkXFkA+tfl5e9W1IakBoWCq9fSRxFf WXCc+W0ltmMiNrVOP8CP1dQnKKP6JI5NcehFKIf0qmTLDli98fRcoKPP6lZ2IeTaIITc 9RK+ZqdTgY9Nfo6DIa6p91bXFPUGYiSEK8vJuEgydqrHrcWu6Qq/DUZVn0gipjdHAt5A YZepb+dvD3CrB1/q8x6xLFjytKQS1lFRgTE+9+OEiNyFKqpwWe7Au+b7BhB+7mKLAbop 7ncjEoM/6g4S5v3MPf6o3GjE8ALpMqoxqYkPdaWyY9DWGaB4RUzECeiToRzAHVmcWc9h 7Pnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=78B+U/JydD4nuvCNI8Q3jUNnuA4/ivOZYYR+RBsWh78=; b=SyjvXBQexudwPX2Jn3owExMUlxoaU20UP1pffd1Jom7LbN6oD32RVhxhIWBeiinMhe W9p/b+gfyVjY+C0jxzHc9LFhH4CWM0Qim3pieCuBtXuNSwVW5dwlrQvqr32QmLoEvKp2 uSU/mCJrziDSECCuPOfKcWlZs9KjvjtFOTX7uVUBmfwF8dmFdcqknClAEKWJJeUoKUjn +dK+peClyaRRmEm021Lbi0W2fMzWc/31xSDlo9aGp6mTyWLsFplDahaiRV4U0Frhe7LS BXrGyyKb+DSsLcZHihXB26KoysLX/IY83BdblcBKxOwcfSKRclM0aK36yF5d0Agivh9N 68UA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABUngvcIRY3K9aghfL6A4gzU3SlhOGlfLAqgmkPcmr/q4tvEhBX29YzI/8dqm+JkQ2ARZVbJx8NPqiMAhVhrlw== X-Received: by 10.194.94.39 with SMTP id cz7mr18975843wjb.141.1477402215582; Tue, 25 Oct 2016 06:30:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::22e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208761 Archived-At: --047d7bb03ddc40123f053fb082cc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Stefan Monnier schrieb am Do., 13. Okt. 2016 um 17:07 Uhr: > > I also know that in the not that distant future processors with > > hundreds or thousands of cores are going to be common, so there will > > only be more demand with time for the ability to do real concurrency > > for performance. Solving the parallel execution issue may be a matter > > of importance if (in the future) people are going to do things like > > using Emacs as a primary web browser and development environment. > > "Luckily" here, it seems that (usefully) increasing the number of cores > is not that easy, so this future is still a bit further. But I'll note > also that concurrency is not solution for parallelism. > > IOW if we want to take advantage of tens of cores in Emacs, we have to > think very differently. A language with STM or with "communicating > agents" won't cut it, I think. > These approaches are widely used in practice, probably much more widely than Emacs. They are good enough for Emacs. --047d7bb03ddc40123f053fb082cc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Stefan= Monnier <monnier@iro.umontr= eal.ca> schrieb am Do., 13. Okt. 2016 um 17:07=C2=A0Uhr:
> I also know that in the not that distant = future processors with
> hundreds or thousands of cores are going to be common, so there will > only be more demand with time for the ability to do real concurrency > for performance. Solving the parallel execution issue may be a matter<= br class=3D"gmail_msg"> > of importance if (in the future) people are going to do things like > using Emacs as a primary web browser and development environment.

"Luckily" here, it seems that (usefully) increasing the number of= cores
is not that easy, so this future is still a bit further.=C2=A0 But I'll= note
also that concurrency is not solution for parallelism.

IOW if we want to take advantage of tens of cores in Emacs, we have to
think very differently.=C2=A0 A language with STM or with "communicati= ng
agents" won't cut it, I think.

These approaches are widely used in practi= ce, probably much more widely than Emacs. They are good enough for Emacs.= =C2=A0
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