From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Grant Rettke Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: RTF for emacs Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 09:14:58 -0500 Message-ID: References: <87fvk012fi.fsf@debian.uxu> <8761kw58n4.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <87a9a79gvk.fsf@debian.uxu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1401027322 13294 80.91.229.3 (25 May 2014 14:15:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 14:15:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" , Emanuel Berg To: Yuri Khan Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 25 16:15:13 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WoZCi-0005vu-Mj for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 16:15:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51612 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WoZCi-0007fy-78 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 10:15:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46868) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WoZCW-0007bw-Fg for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 10:15:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WoZCV-0007Ln-6q for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 10:15:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oa0-x235.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c02::235]:47037) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WoZCU-0007Lc-VO for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 10:14:59 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id m1so7243703oag.26 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:14:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=16/6Mz0PEHQP2WuyRtuR4xjt/b8S7RIwTcYw6VEvGGA=; b=cLQQa/8+4ooH3iJl1SnpZZb0+cSvkDEEjxn7UHJYH3wSa+12K4iJG7YWv0XRzl6YlP Z8ruYnutKZKpdNErCvqTttEiRQ510xJdoyNKl5LUHOt94cZKAuFIryywJoS9ue+fAFVo nekk5deWSe3a2dy4s+2z1qxqa0l8NbFUXQYS+8yA8aBe7eG9FDK/EYdt6XgvQlkTrsoE qS98DdAIwMFljW3VIHKgJMaBuaFq0QOQTvFAcy8ES6WBUvdvouiAUhsT+QCLzqEeeYLM 3Egnqrral9SQh4UHVh7toT8wTpAwmZqhy48FxdfNXIOKZ+h5m1iSwGCeJwBt9TYXlmZ/ b/bw== X-Received: by 10.182.108.199 with SMTP id hm7mr15773586obb.51.1401027298353; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.182.50.135 with HTTP; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:14:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: hzoCeUGQVkZw1dbk7eep3bbp2mg X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c02::235 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:97849 Archived-At: Yuri you reinvented org-mode. Grant Rettke | AAAS, ACM, ASA, FSF, IEEE, SIAM, Sigma Xi gcr@wisdomandwonder.com | http://www.wisdomandwonder.com/ =E2=80=9CWisdom begins in wonder.=E2=80=9D --Socrates ((=CE=BB (x) (x x)) (=CE=BB (x) (x x))) =E2=80=9CLife has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to st= op taking it seriously.=E2=80=9D --Thompson On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Yuri Khan wrote: > On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 1:22 AM, Emanuel Berg > wrote: > > > I have been looking for a way to > > do simple diagrams (trees, FSMs and so on) with the > > keyboard only (i.e., generate from definitions) - I > > have tried with ImageMagick and even Dia, as it uses > > XML, so why not edit that first hand? > > I do my diagrams in a self-invented semi-human-readable markup > language[1], which is then post-processed using Python scripts into > Graphviz[2] graph description language, which is then further rendered > into any image format you like (notably PNG, SVG, PDF and EPS). My > format of choice happens to be SVG, which I can conveniently view in > my web browser, print out without any loss of quality, and/or embed in > an HTML page. > > [1] http://yurivkhan.github.io/textuml/ but see also > http://sf.net/plantuml/ for a Java-based alternative > [2] http://www.graphviz.org/ > > One could write Graphviz directly but it is too low-level and verbose. > I view it as a graph assembly language and build higher-level tools on > top of it. > > > Answer: Problem with both approaches is that it > > required too much back-and-forth > > edit-and-check-and-fix-and-check-etc. so it just wasn't > > pleasant or efficient (perhaps if you had a dual > > monitor/projector and on-the-fly-update it would be). > > Yes, it involves this feedback loop, and it=E2=80=99s mildly frustrating.= And > yes, dual monitors help very much. > > > When I got a cool diagram, how do you propose I embed > > it with the LaTeX PDF? > > In my opinion, nohow. PDFs are for getting your article printed, and > that=E2=80=99s becoming more and more irrelevant. Better publish online i= n > HTML with illustrations in SVG. (But if you must, Graphviz can also > generate Encapsulated PostScript which LaTeX will happily include in > the PDF.) > >