From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juanma Barranquero Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Git mirrors Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 11:27:01 +0200 Message-ID: References: <8762k095n4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <871uuksdxi.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87lissh32y.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87zkh8e286.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87d3e4gttq.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ehyjrhxh.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87d3e2rfte.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <878voqfiaw.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87zkh4bhho.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87y5wonpmn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1318584483 11704 80.91.229.12 (14 Oct 2011 09:28:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 09:28:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 14 11:27:59 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1REe3Z-00045N-Dq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 11:27:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58314 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1REe3Y-0003Xk-S8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 05:27:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:53471) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1REe3T-0003XJ-9z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 05:27:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1REe3P-0002je-Df for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 05:27:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.160.169]:40640) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1REe3K-0002Xo-RK; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 05:27:42 -0400 Original-Received: by gyf3 with SMTP id 3so872661gyf.0 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 02:27:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=620Pqc0gVzvuHFWlR82X25Mm6hVT0Pq1RatOL8D89yI=; b=EYfgaBj7ZzqbEIn9YaDEAvQL78cvGclGar5Ne/QxqLGafp3huK+iJI9fisreOmtn7q VUD2FiKozpT+7eadF6QuIr3OGhFv1BmAeQ3oirwA+yD84kCtMyafL3WPyqucGBxCAICT UgspAyISIRu5MpVWIp9LZCNWrM7V754NOItog= Original-Received: by 10.68.34.226 with SMTP id c2mr15606373pbj.99.1318584462076; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 02:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.143.165.16 with HTTP; Fri, 14 Oct 2011 02:27:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87y5wonpmn.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.160.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:145203 Archived-At: On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 06:50, Stephen J. Turnbull wro= te: > No, he's exaggerating. With a purpose. > For sure. =C2=A0And GNU now has two. =C2=A0GNU Arch (since 2003), a defin= itely > freedom-loving project. =C2=A0And GNU Bazaar (just in time to be adopted = by > Emacs; coincidence?) =C2=A0For heaven's sake, even the name "Bazaar" evok= es > open source ideals! And? > I don't understand what you're trying to say. =C2=A0=C3=93scar is precise= ly > arguing that there should be *no* "official" GNU VCS, because there > are too many good ones out there. I'm trying to say the same thing that Jambunathan K just said: that the project's choice of a DVCS over another will only stop from participating to those who weren't really inclined to do so in the first place. > If users are choosing > something other than GNU, and it's clear that GNU makes choices based > on favoritism toward GNU-labeled projects, that makes the GNU > recommendation meaningless as a signal of quality. *Technical* quality, perhaps. But the recommendations are not just technical, and someone who choses GNU software should know it. And the technical aspect will in most cases improve over time. >=C2=A0It's already > meaningless as a signal of the freedom of the software, since that is > determined quite precisely by the license; no need for a GNU label. That's not an argument against having a GNU DVCS, it is an argument against having GNU in the first place. > While I understand it's not a *contradiction* in this > context, the justaposition of emphasizing political correctness while > advocating freedom is, uh, unattractive. I don't think so, as long as political correctness is a choice. > It would be (economically) better if GNU developers making (currently) > inferior software were encouraged to abandon their effort, and devote > some of that time to improving the free rival(s) Isn't that a recipe for monocultures? Or are you suggesting that all XEmacs developers should abandon it, sign papers and start hacking Emacs? > and most of it to > developing software that currently has no attractive free > implementation. By and large, people develops what they are interested in. There's nobody in charge to order or suggest them to tackle other software that would be useful. > Richard has already announced here that he thinks Savannah made a > mistake. =C2=A0He has clearly stated the policy: GNU does not reject git, > but it does favor Bazaar. Yes, that's what Richard said. But still, he does not order around the Savannah hackers (or we would have had an upgrade to the bazaar server almost two years before). The fact is that currently, Savannah is not favoring bazaar. > But your analogy fails, because the problem here is not whether > =C3=93scar can *adapt* to Emacs' use of bzr. =C2=A0He can, and he can use= git > (for developing Emacs) at the same time as bzr (for pushing his > contributions) if he wants to. Apparently, for =C3=93scar is a problem. > The problem is that many people are failing to *conform*. =C2=A0They're > *adapting* by using a git mirror, and annoying larsi and Glenn et al > by reporting bugs against git revision ids. =C2=A0John is trying to reduc= e > or eliminate the annoyance by providing a canonical git repo with a > publicly available git revid <-> bzr revid map. My view of that people is that it's as if I were to use a C-to-Ada translator to get the code of Emacs, patch it (in Ada), and complain that it is difficult to integrate the changes back into Emacs because they are rejected or I'm forced to convert them back into C. I'm making my live difficult, I'm making the live of others difficult, and I'm complaining about it. And, BTW, "failing to *conform*" is quite loaded, don't you think? > Richard's reluctance to express approval of this idea strikes me as > going beyond *promoting* GNU Bazaar to *protecting* it. And you're surprised that Richard is protective of GNU because...? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Juanma