From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Juanma Barranquero Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bug #25608 and the comment-cache branch Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:13:23 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20170202202418.GA2505@acm> <83lgtouxpf.fsf@gnu.org> <20170202215154.GB2505@acm> <83h94bvhzw.fsf@gnu.org> <20170205220045.GB2294@acm> <83d1es61li.fsf@gnu.org> <20170211232511.GA13712@acm> <20170212120553.GB3087@acm> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114b114ce7de7a0548551ab2 X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1486905261 11768 195.159.176.226 (12 Feb 2017 13:14:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 13:14:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 12 14:14:17 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cctyp-0002WJ-EB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:14:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52039 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cctyt-0008H2-CE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 08:14:19 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52529) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cctym-0008Gl-Kt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 08:14:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cctyh-000368-Ox for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 08:14:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]:34396) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cctyh-00035T-I3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 08:14:07 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id 196so886590wmm.1 for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 05:14:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XpCbVCXjB1JIYkKH2qCvZhc59CRAMlvT7OFeb2QV/yU=; b=tKGZls5Y8qPhcNUfKMwDkHtNcPXPfaFc+C4DIhQacW1f754DKBKB4eum8YlQpSXDPO Voq2YbesuIFAyokQBUutMuoDv6tuSJgawwokolKW5DQFQem9a9kZRIE0UUNGxZRH01vg gee6qW3cVPaoRwugQyhoeMAKsUfMHtL15rFduzlqjVATlal7rPvt/IchwnlaXUN/lyOb XZo+4iQn1XPk/kR6CBJeCKlhUJVSBFguEM9UUfdCpjGvNXqhbktBoX53+D/nlyIWDsHb xU8xcz8wx/EJYn9MCun6/TKmIsHAoMPnYkLdCMZw/W4kl6tPhpwmx8ps6GgA03c2mfAz PLLw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XpCbVCXjB1JIYkKH2qCvZhc59CRAMlvT7OFeb2QV/yU=; b=n/C1b/Ap7Epsr6fC7bEEFzmyjq+BKgcLUXFEuT2gvu3V01Shda8NTB+8uuxGXOby9K a9XXm488B7ZX3pGPDSf+EtmM+mg0OZdJOEdBYGMdT2+QfGMwdVmXBLXSXXJcWz3aIts6 wVgBriSDHO1fj/r1JRELYPGk1fNQh2xjUBrzY1H7GuaTBJjdOjnp/eRjBF54TNabZ9Mz a4XhAoh2qWSWk38P9nRwCVgCL5h4Lv1zwu1tStB6oIoYTL9+OQoaqP+UyemrAL42LtC9 Ke8sVEUjvBmWPZtlVFm35N2jqBVP3n3umuDlhHbftLdMy2JkvjMkUi0eoT1CINA8/l9c hCDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39krbEcmh5Mqv3wzl60bbN28sU2brpQWePmTjt7jpHLB47IWyjagpItrP9JZLjotVeqaYWoKukjTwIKFAQ== X-Received: by 10.28.223.6 with SMTP id w6mr14814674wmg.17.1486905244374; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 05:14:04 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.80.165.219 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Feb 2017 05:13:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20170212120553.GB3087@acm> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c09::231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:212276 Archived-At: --001a114b114ce7de7a0548551ab2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > The question of "widening" is not difficult. Narrowing a buffer should > not change the syntax of the characters in it. Doing so leads to > inconsistencies. > > If I understand correctly, the problem is that multiple-major-mode modes > are trying to use narrowing to get a null syntactic context. They are > trying this because we don't provide anything better. We should provide > something better. I suggested such a something last spring ("islands"). > If each buffer position has an unambiguous syntactic context the > question of "widening" simply evaporates. I have no opinion on this thread's issue, so no personal attachment to either side. But I find curious that you complain that people refuses (so to speak) to judge comment-cache based on its technical merits, and yet you refuse to acknowledge that the narrow/widen issue is not technical but social. There's not a technical reason to prefer that narrowing doesn't change the syntax of characters, and it's not clear at all that it is what the users prefer. Indeed, as Eli and Stefan already pointed out, narrowing has been used in both senses inside and outside Emacs proper. Perhaps you're right and both behaviors should be separated and clearly defined as two different facilities, but insisting that your view is the right one is not, per se, an argument for comment-cache. Just my 0,00002=E2=82=AC. Juanma --001a114b114ce7de7a0548551ab2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:

> The ques= tion of "widening" is not difficult.=C2=A0 Narrowing a buffer sho= uld
> not change the syntax of the characters in it.=C2=A0 Doing so l= eads to
> inconsistencies.
>
> If I understand correctly,= the problem is that multiple-major-mode modes
> are trying to use na= rrowing to get a null syntactic context.=C2=A0 They are
> trying this= because we don't provide anything better.=C2=A0 We should provide
&= gt; something better.=C2=A0 I suggested such a something last spring ("= ;islands").
> If each buffer position has an unambiguous syntact= ic context the
> question of "widening" simply evaporates.<= br>
I have no opinion on this thread's issue, so no perso= nal attachment to either side.

But I find curious = that you complain that people refuses (so to speak) to judge comment-cache = based on its technical merits, and yet you refuse to acknowledge that the n= arrow/widen issue is not technical but social. There's not a technical = reason to prefer that narrowing doesn't change the syntax of characters= , and it's not clear at all that it is what the users prefer. Indeed, a= s Eli and Stefan already pointed out, narrowing has been used in both sense= s inside and outside Emacs proper. Perhaps you're right and both behavi= ors should be separated and clearly defined as two different facilities, bu= t insisting that your view is the right one is not, per se, an argument for= comment-cache.

Just my 0,00002=E2=82=AC.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Juanma

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