From: Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: martin rudalics <rudalics@gmx.at>,
Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: How to restore the layout?
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 02:25:57 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAAeL0SSSgq=5eCT7vjeO2zWeLp351UPVeQDx0fj0_nmXwrgiZg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <b5fd6f62-79f9-4b6f-822e-46e6371f6dbb@default>
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:03 PM, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
> "Already" when? You mean before restoring a desktop? If so, agreed.
Yes. in the init file, or via X resources / W32 registry.
> Restore when?
In all this discussion, when I say "restore" I'm mostly talking about
automatic (desktop) restoration while starting emacs, but I don't
think a later M-x desktop-read <RET> would be any different.
> Sorry, I don't follow you. Restore how - via a desktop?
Yes.
> I don't see `initial-frame-alist' entering the discussion anyway, but that
> might be because I don't make any use of it. I use only `default-frame-alist'.
That doesn't really change much of what is being discussed.
> Typically, a user with a standalone minibuffer will (must?) set it up when Emacs starts,
> from the command line or the init file. If s?he then moves that frame
> for some reason, I would NOT assume that s?he wants the next Emacs session to
> remember the last position/size of that frame. I would assume that the same
> startup code would be used to configure the frame anew the same way.
That's weird. If I set up default-frame-alist to create frames of size
80x50, and then I resize them, after desktop-save/desktop-read (or
exit Emacs and restart it) I would expect them to be just like I left
them, not how the "code to configure the frame[s] anew" would make
them. That's the *whole* reason I'm using desktop-restore-frames. I
assume you would expect the same. How is the minibuffer-only frame any
different?
> IOW, I would assume that if a user wants to change what the standalone minibuffer
> frame looks like, s?he would do that in the startup code.
Yes, for new minibuffer frames. But when you're using
desktop-restore-frames, you're asking your frames, and the changes (in
size, position, window setup and buffers displayed) to be
persistent...
Hmm. While writing the above sentences, it dawned on me: it seems like
you're thinking of desktop-restore-frames as a way to set
(quasi-)immutable snapshots (or desktop bookmarks). You want to use
them to be able to roll back to defined window&frame states. Is that
so?
That is, of course, perfectly valid, but desktop-restore-frames must
also support a more transient use case, where what the user wants is
for the current state to be saved upon exit and restored on restart.
If I were to use a separate minibuffer-only frame, my expectation
would definitely not be for that frame to appear always at the sample
place, but at the place it was when I exited from Emacs. To me, that's
not a new frame recreated anew in each Emacs run (though it really is,
from Emacs' POV); it's the same one I moved aside or resized in my
previous working session.
> Or perhaps, if there is already a minibuffer frame, just MODIFY its parameters
> based on the recorded ones from the desktop - as opposed to creating a new
> minibuffer frame.
That's more or less what I'm trying right now.
> In any case, I think you need to avoid trying to create another minibuffer frame.
> And avoiding that might just eliminate some of the problems I saw. (Dunno.)
Yes, agreed. Creating a second minibuffer-only frame would be a bug.
> What "new minibuffer frame"? My suggestion was to NOT record or restore
> a minibuffer frame. So restoring a desktop should not be creating any "new
> minibuffer frame".
I think you're talking about a desktop-save/desktop-read use case:
that is, you say that if you have a current setup, with a
minibuffer-only frame, and you do M-x desktop-read, no new
minibuffer-only frame should be created. And I was talking about
kill-emacs / run emacs. A new minibuffer-only frame is created.
> It's hard to talk about this and follow each other, with just descriptions.
> I suggest we take it off list for a while and we stick to easy-to-follow
> recipes.
OK, though public discussion helps to integrate other people's
opinions. Surely you're not the only one using multi-frame setups and
minibuffer-only frames :-)
> IOW, we might be able to (optionally) accommodate
> save/restore of a minibuffer-only frame, if the restore operation avoided
> trying to create a new standalone minibuffer frame when one already exists.
Of course, that's always been the goal. Let's not forget that we're
talking about unfinished code and evolving designs here.
> Great. Good to hear that at least the simple solution works. (That should
> be enough for my own use.)
Yes, though it wouldn't be for mine, if I used a setup like yours. Now
would be a great time for different opinions to enter the discussion
(hint, hint).
> As to the missing appeal:
>
> 1. Single place to look for all user command input and echoed messages.
> No matter what frame might be selected, your visual focus for commands and
> messages is always the same.
In my case, that would be a disadvantage, when using multiple frames
(for a one-work-frame, one-minibuffer-frame, I could bear it, though
it wouldn't really be much different or better than the default
setup). Non-locality kills me. That's the same reason, I suppose, I
can not stand the recentering scrolling of stock Emacs and must resort
to line-by-line scrolling.
> 2. Long, long minibuffer - full-screen width.
> And in my case, expands to any number of lines. (I use the minibuffer for
> lots of stuff, including sometimes large sexps.)
You don't need minibuffer-only frames for that. I have my minibuffer
set up so it can grow up to 1/3 of the frame height, which I find more
than enough for most uses. You could potentially make it almost
full-screen height.
> However, if Emacs did dynamicaly show/hide minibuffers in frames that way,
> it might be distracting/disorienting. In any case, I would prefer the
> single-location, permanent, standalone minibuffer frame solution.
Goes to show why both of us use the Extensible, Customizable Text Editor.
J
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-07-02 0:25 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 264+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-06-22 13:45 How to restore the layout? Angelo Graziosi
2013-06-22 23:01 ` Xue Fuqiao
2013-06-23 10:24 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-06-23 8:26 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-23 10:35 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-06-24 17:05 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-24 17:23 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-24 17:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-24 17:52 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-24 18:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-24 18:33 ` Stephen Berman
2013-06-24 18:33 ` Stephen Berman
2013-06-24 20:10 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-24 20:11 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-24 20:22 ` Jambunathan K
2013-06-24 20:28 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-24 20:57 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-24 22:47 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-24 23:38 ` Juri Linkov
2013-06-24 23:43 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-25 6:03 ` Juri Linkov
2013-06-25 16:05 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-25 6:46 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-25 15:32 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-25 16:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-06-25 16:38 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-25 17:21 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-25 21:36 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-06-25 21:40 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-26 0:52 ` chad
2013-06-26 14:03 ` chad
2013-06-26 17:21 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-26 18:27 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-26 23:05 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-27 2:35 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-06-27 2:57 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-27 4:30 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-06-27 8:55 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-27 15:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-06-27 15:23 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-27 8:05 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-27 9:00 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-27 9:38 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-27 21:02 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 6:34 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-28 11:53 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 14:02 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-27 13:29 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-06-27 14:05 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-27 14:31 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-06-27 14:45 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-27 18:27 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-27 20:30 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-27 20:49 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-27 20:52 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-27 21:00 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-27 21:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-27 23:33 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 6:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 8:17 ` Jan Djärv
2013-06-28 11:54 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 11:48 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 17:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 18:15 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-06-28 17:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-06-28 17:51 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 19:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-06-29 0:54 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-29 8:29 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-29 22:06 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-30 9:35 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-30 10:32 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-30 12:55 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-30 17:55 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-01 6:48 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-04 20:41 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-07-04 21:34 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-04 23:10 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-07-04 23:19 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 7:45 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 9:37 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 14:02 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-07-05 14:55 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 15:02 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-07-05 15:10 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 15:30 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 15:39 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 15:54 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 16:02 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 17:03 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 17:06 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 17:37 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-06 14:32 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-07 10:57 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 15:21 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 15:26 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 15:39 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 15:40 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 15:55 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 17:04 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-07-05 17:09 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 7:45 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 10:07 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-07-05 12:58 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 13:13 ` Jan Djärv
2013-07-05 13:41 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-07-05 14:42 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 18:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-07-05 20:30 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-07-06 8:47 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-06 9:10 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-07-06 10:44 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-06 11:04 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-07-06 13:06 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-06 13:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-07-06 13:43 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-06 13:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-07-07 10:56 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-06 14:27 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-07-06 18:57 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-07 10:57 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-07 11:32 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-07 12:46 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-07 15:53 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-08 6:47 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-08 13:56 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-08 17:29 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-09 9:08 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-09 9:07 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-09 15:32 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-10 7:20 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-10 13:50 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-06 9:13 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-06 10:44 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-06 14:39 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 7:44 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-29 8:51 ` Stephen Leake
2013-06-29 18:00 ` chad
2013-06-29 18:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-29 22:36 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-30 15:27 ` Stephen Leake
2013-06-30 18:12 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 8:13 ` Jan Djärv
2013-06-28 8:31 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-28 8:46 ` Jan Djärv
[not found] ` <51CD5489.10902@g>
2013-06-28 9:16 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-28 10:01 ` Jan Djärv
2013-06-28 10:19 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-28 10:26 ` Jan Djärv
2013-06-28 11:50 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-29 8:47 ` Stephen Leake
2013-06-29 22:26 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-30 15:25 ` Stephen Leake
2013-06-30 18:09 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 12:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 14:03 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-28 14:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 15:06 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 17:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-29 0:49 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 15:22 ` Jan Djärv
2013-06-28 15:32 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 15:53 ` Jan Djärv
2013-06-28 12:05 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 13:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 13:22 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 14:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 15:22 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 17:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-29 0:47 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-29 8:39 ` Stephen Leake
2013-06-29 22:18 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-29 23:48 ` Drew Adams
2013-06-30 10:16 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-30 16:30 ` Drew Adams
2013-06-30 18:15 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-30 7:51 ` Jan Djärv
2013-06-30 9:35 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-30 10:01 ` Jan Djärv
2013-06-30 10:11 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-30 10:34 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-30 10:29 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-30 12:55 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-30 18:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-30 21:32 ` Jan Djärv
2013-07-01 0:28 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-01 3:31 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-01 6:50 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-01 10:38 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-02 10:38 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-02 16:32 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-03 9:27 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-03 10:36 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-03 12:42 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-03 14:20 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-03 14:32 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-04 9:35 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-03 14:08 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-08 2:50 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-08 6:47 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-08 12:13 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-01 14:11 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-01 14:40 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-01 16:03 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-01 16:37 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-01 18:03 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-02 0:25 ` Juanma Barranquero [this message]
2013-07-02 3:46 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-02 17:32 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-02 19:40 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-03 9:03 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-03 9:34 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-03 10:38 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-03 12:42 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-03 14:35 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-04 9:35 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-04 14:17 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-05 7:43 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-05 9:35 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-03 14:08 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-03 14:54 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-03 9:27 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-03 14:08 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-03 9:27 ` martin rudalics
2013-07-03 10:37 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-03 14:08 ` Drew Adams
2013-07-03 15:16 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-07-03 17:01 ` Drew Adams
2013-06-30 15:23 ` Stephen Leake
2013-06-30 15:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 14:03 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-28 15:12 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 10:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 11:50 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-28 12:11 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 12:24 ` Angelo Graziosi
2013-06-28 13:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 14:07 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-28 14:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 12:08 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 13:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 13:29 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 14:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 15:24 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-29 8:03 ` Stephen Leake
2013-06-29 8:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-30 15:29 ` Stephen Leake
2013-06-30 15:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-06-28 12:00 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 12:31 ` Jan Djärv
2013-06-28 13:18 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 14:26 ` Jan Djärv
2013-06-28 15:19 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 14:03 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-28 15:13 ` Jan Djärv
2013-06-28 15:14 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 14:02 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-28 15:10 ` Juanma Barranquero
2013-06-28 16:17 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-29 8:41 ` Stephen Leake
2013-06-28 13:29 ` Drew Adams
2013-06-25 3:22 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-06-24 17:38 ` martin rudalics
2013-06-23 12:28 ` Juanma Barranquero
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