From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Artur Malabarba Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Calling (package-initialize) sooner during initialization Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 20:43:31 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20150411231042.GA25541@odonien> <877fthgur7.fsf@udel.edu> Reply-To: bruce.connor.am@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1428867828 3354 80.91.229.3 (12 Apr 2015 19:43:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:43:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel To: Mark Oteiza Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 12 21:43:48 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YhNnH-0003ew-Tt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 21:43:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46118 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhNnG-00022s-RN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:43:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54799) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhNn4-00022n-0E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:43:34 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhNn3-000624-1d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:43:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lb0-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c04::22b]:35061) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YhNn2-00061r-PL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 15:43:32 -0400 Original-Received: by lbbuc2 with SMTP id uc2so44896561lbb.2 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:43:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=STWGhejOjDv0vCCU4nJkbmwTIJMzlAuzgSXHwVpnoXE=; b=o2OZuHyuXZ+QyeGnYMLqxlRaTm4Z2iSEtMZLM8pipF1FKOsZkDu8970mbVmTlUt/rE cvjpXlgKPuOFNAESLcx9PqjxzUpP24C4SaYRdZ+4Xk/KAFVQVXpEw/VNwLUTEKq7NzBO UD74cjkBT2PyDkWTIQTfg4dgE9zv8YmfUcnsElo3PAh1K6u32GIpiI+mKALhFqa79V8p Vf2vYZLwCxA8fEQjc4Yc4jcvSI/JoLk8fq/8qbWx+vqkFQUnrtE0nW0IriHMXAK+nX+j KhrruaEr4b5o/spaAoiD7tF1R7SpOc3/3MyZQP3W6V+O4Y3icS4Yo/LufNOwB2yaDef9 l60Q== X-Received: by 10.112.119.234 with SMTP id kx10mr10424093lbb.35.1428867811831; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.25.150.131 with HTTP; Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:43:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <877fthgur7.fsf@udel.edu> X-Google-Sender-Auth: uMhA4hrHAkQrikImKm54mZ539C0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c04::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:185354 Archived-At: > > I'm just glad this issue is up for the slaughter, I don't care whether > > we kill it with a magnum or a tennis racket. > > Better documenting the relationship between custom.el and package.el > should have been considered over resorting to indiscriminately > clobbering init.el. This is not an issue with custom.el. The custom.el problem is one of the consequences. Another consequence is that users can't paste configurations into their init file in the way that 90% of the (emacs-related) internet is telling them to. By adding the chosen snippet to the user's init file we are preventing this sort of problem for new users, instead of telling them it's their fault for not understanding package.el. The only cost associated with this solution is that the advanced users who don't want this feature now need to keep =E2=80=9C;(package-initialize)= =E2=80=9D somewhere inside their init file. That's all. We are imposing 21 characters on the few (me included), in exchanged for many lines and much headache we're no longer imposing on the many. > (info "(emacs) Package Installation") talks about > use of (package-initialize) in a user's init file. This could be > improved. Alternatively, why bother having the documentation if Emacs is= going to be in the habit of forcing this behaviour? Nobody is being forced. The added snippet clearly explains that you can comment it out. The only thing that's being forced upon you is the presence of 21 characters in your init file. > I have never needed package-initialize in my init.el for things > installed by package.el, either from an archive or locally. Why am I > subjected to having my init.el overwritten when I install anything with > package.el? You will have one sexp added to your init-file exactly once. You are being =E2=80=9Csubjected=E2=80=9D to that because a lot of other people wer= e being subjected things much worse (see the original thread). You only need to have =E2=80=9C;(package-initialize)=E2=80=9D somewhere in = your init file and this feature will never ever affect your again (it will never even visit your init file again). I'm truly sorry if you feel that is too much. > custom.el and package.el simply aren't made for each other, please do not > hack around it in my init file: As mentioned above, this is not about custom.