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From: Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com>
To: "Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer" <taylanbayirli@gmail.com>
Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
	emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Calling (package-initialize) sooner during initialization
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 19:23:23 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAAdUY-Lcurmxu1P30bpPjSCOdvm-6qeaZ2HtUf1=SrAxCgwV6g@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87pp71ia87.fsf@taylan.uni.cx>

2015-04-18 19:04 GMT+01:00 Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
<taylanbayirli@gmail.com>:
> Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:
>
>> Maybe a solution is to simply make customize-set-variables lazier, so
>> that variables with a :require see their setting delayed to after
>> package-initialize was called.  Or else, have package-initialize be
>> called by customize-set-variables.  Or...
>
> I'm not sure if this isn't an orthogonal problem, but indeed as someone
> who doesn't use Customize I didn't think about it at all, and know
> little about it so excuses in advance for ignorance.

Yes.
It's not completely orthogonal, as the problems are related. But
things like "have package-initialize be called by
customize-set-variables" will not solve the problem, because the
problem goes beyond custom.el.

> How about Customize being "smart" and separating package-related
> configurations from other ones?  I don't know how hard it would be to
> implement

custom.el would have to make a new defcustom keyword availabe
(something like `:before-package'), and then package.el (and any other
packages that need this) would simply set that keyword.

> obviously package related
> customization should be applied before package-initialize, but all other
> customization should be applied after package-initialize, since it's a
> configuration system, meaning it should be one layer above the package
> system, going purely by intuition.
>
> So startup would look like:
>
>   1. pre-package-init.el
>   2. Package related customization.
>   3. package-initialize
>   4. init.el
>   5. All other customization.

I think "4. init.el + All other customization." would be more
accurate, as the two are currently loaded together (and separating
them, if we want to, is another discussion entirely).

> Would that work?

AFAICS, yes.
I'm not in love with the complexity of this solution. However, I do
believe it solves both problems (the custom.el issue and the general
package.el issue), and I believe there's no way to do that with a
simpler solution.

So, I guess I'm saying I'm ok with this if nobody has a better idea.



  reply	other threads:[~2015-04-18 18:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-04-18 12:25 Calling (package-initialize) sooner during initialization Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-18 13:32 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 14:24   ` Nic Ferrier
2015-04-18 15:16     ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-18 17:35       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 18:25         ` Nic Ferrier
2015-04-18 18:48           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 15:11   ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-18 17:16   ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-18 17:56     ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-18 18:16       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-18 18:32         ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-19  0:24           ` Drew Adams
2015-04-19  0:38             ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 18:24       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 18:32         ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-19  8:19           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 18:04     ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-18 18:23       ` Artur Malabarba [this message]
2015-04-19  3:07       ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-19  6:44       ` Philipp Stephani
2015-04-19  8:11         ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 22:37     ` chad
2015-04-19  6:40     ` Philipp Stephani
2015-04-19  8:04       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-20  0:43         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20  7:54           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-20 12:42             ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 14:31               ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-20 16:01                 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-20 17:29                   ` chad
2015-04-20 18:38                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-20 19:40                       ` chad
2015-04-20 19:07                 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 15:19               ` Mark Oteiza
2015-04-27  9:52               ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-04-27 11:03                 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-27 14:01                   ` Drew Adams
2015-04-27 12:32                 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-27 14:10                   ` Drew Adams
2015-04-27 14:15                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-27 14:36                   ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-04-27 12:46                 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-27 13:43                   ` Andy Moreton
2015-04-27 15:46                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-28 10:11                       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-28  7:25                     ` Oleh Krehel
2015-04-28  7:39                       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-28  7:42                         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-04-28 14:54                           ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-04-28 16:46                             ` Drew Adams
2015-04-28 17:29                               ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-04-28 18:52                                 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-29  1:20                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-28 15:32                           ` raman
2015-04-29  8:25                           ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-04-28 15:26                       ` raman
2015-04-27 14:13                   ` Drew Adams
2015-04-27 14:46                   ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-04-27 15:15                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-27 15:52                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-28  0:30                       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-04-29  8:01                       ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-04-29 13:09                         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-28  0:25                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-04-12 12:09 Jorgen Schäfer
2015-04-12 14:26 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12 14:45   ` Jorgen Schäfer
2015-04-12 20:46     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-12 14:40 ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2015-04-12 16:23   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12 20:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-12 21:02   ` Jorgen Schäfer
2015-04-12 23:22     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-13 22:52       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-13 22:49     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-11 23:10 Vasilij Schneidermann
2015-04-12  1:00 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12 16:46   ` Mark Oteiza
2015-04-12 19:43     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12 20:05       ` Mark Oteiza
2015-04-12 20:28         ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12  3:56 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-12  9:58   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12 12:02     ` Stefan Monnier
     [not found]   ` <20150412082125.GA490@odonien>
2015-04-12 10:07     ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2015-04-12 10:28       ` Artur Malabarba
2015-03-30 19:01 Artur Malabarba
2015-03-30 20:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-31 10:52   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-03-31 12:34     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-18 10:46   ` Ted Zlatanov
2015-03-31  8:53 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-03-31 10:55   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-03-31 12:29   ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-31 12:48     ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-03-31 13:19     ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-03-31 13:47       ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-03-31 14:03         ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-03-31 14:56           ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-01  6:04             ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-03-31 14:51 ` Sebastian Wiesner
2015-03-31 15:40   ` Artur Malabarba
2015-03-31 20:46   ` Stefan Monnier

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