From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Artur Malabarba Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On language-dependent defaults for character-folding Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:17:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87mvr9wxqz.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87io1xwq1e.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83d1s4bnag.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: bruce.connor.am@gmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114e60fe5f3532052b70f7df X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455139083 18063 80.91.229.3 (10 Feb 2016 21:18:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:18:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 10 22:17:58 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aTc98-00066p-7v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 22:17:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43270 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTc97-0007ef-IO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 16:17:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45273) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTc93-0007eU-Bl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 16:17:54 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTc92-0004Xp-69 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 16:17:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yw0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c05::230]:36424) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTc90-0004XH-HV; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 16:17:50 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yw0-x230.google.com with SMTP id q190so24865640ywd.3; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:17:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=H6VeymSGBrj8+cRCMtd559onbOZaw8cGA3f18pmZZ2Y=; b=p1nH9zI6ivdRZtYP4gRqc0cSi5pSEjeSoZWxfWUq2j5fHH09SKAwM7xSZaCtIOhlQy vl15i4CpdwPbkbiwgdCLMEZz8d2nLRbA1256YYIEhvor2NHFowqZlu3n/4c7BVcOHlpx KUM5Zw+VqBAUMpqDc8EPJxjlWzUTBM9Qwdw9mj3yxFjJ1Uic79dg2UoNt69BxM6z+o/9 VE8XHJxKm0XNLMPoZ1v3ikI/JoXQljmuaxX6IcGZjpYiX5nE4KkDzcoyFh3+jdZhP8kL p7oT2WxXH/yMpHky7ozx2utjYvnziwusL7H23z16u8AwMZ7chEItYIeSqOC3KgNstx0J y9Ig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=H6VeymSGBrj8+cRCMtd559onbOZaw8cGA3f18pmZZ2Y=; b=K4TgKxCNW55jfMnqlPLmUD3xfzFmCpMU3idFzQuCAIqDcSulzfm/6FaRlckmzXZqv4 1wRqXrN32ROsUv0sV7cSOWMulJGbt1lXbHly7Mu1XgcbetY/zo2hBwhbqf0hrDVVY2oj Lbl7GsKeWSu11CzpiXeO9wo5O1OXmpv5x7kPMc4+1zr84ewXwbImPOfvrx5OxtqJr1QR htYjB/vGWb4s+sIJpdoJ0VbTDy6m0TSGRHxde4PfqIhThhw91O6akOqUrVy296iGbtZP NPWklYy0897X+f7Ge7EjSNmhdRKPY6+KygG4IalsuPfPETOJ2y36PUtyZOgZevso5bd9 jqYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOS/bWtzo1NrDAOR8EDfHiwKDbqIJn/AMzFnkMLIFSmhzqbxagBpXa3uS82Vz0A5HZD96bpUXpbp4vB8jA== X-Received: by 10.13.200.1 with SMTP id k1mr21225032ywd.141.1455139070095; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:17:50 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.129.79.83 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:17:49 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.129.79.83 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:17:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83d1s4bnag.fsf@gnu.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: xivRgvH3H5p0EKn-wa2kfSfDX3w X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4002:c05::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:199727 Archived-At: --001a114e60fe5f3532052b70f7df Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 10 Feb 2016 1:25 pm, "Eli Zaretskii" wrote: > > > (And how many of those 5721 characters can be matched from a latin > > > letter?) > > > > OK, I see what you meant. > > You do? I think so. But I don't want to prolong that line of thought, because it wasn't a useful argument anyway. > Btw, from my POV, the ease of searching for characters not on my > keyboard is not the main point of this feature. The main feature is > to search for similar characters. (Of course, I don't mind if someone > likes this for other reasons.) That's actually my personal preference too. I like that I can search for "o" and hit "=C3=B5" (both are used in Portuguese text). However, this would not be a good _default_ for Brazilian users. Because once in a while you might not want it, and if the user didn't enable this behaviour himself he probably won't know that it can be disabled. (at least, this is what I think right now). > > Although currently Emacs does fold all decompositions by default, this is just temporary. We've said we would turn that off before release (and in fact I'll do that tomorrow (and ammend my post too)). > > We didn't say we will turn it off, we said we will _decide_ whether to > turn it off. So please don't turn it off just yet, we are still > collecting feedback. Sorry, I already did earlier today. Seems I was under the wrong impression. Feel free to turn it back on for now. FTR, my feedback is that I'd like to give the implementation a little more time before enabling it by default on a stable release. --001a114e60fe5f3532052b70f7df Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 10 Feb 2016 1:25 pm, "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > > (And how many of those 5721 characters can be matched from a= latin
> > > letter?)
> >
> > OK, I see what you meant.
>
> You do?=C2=A0

I think so. But I don't want to prolong that line of tho= ught, because it wasn't a useful argument anyway.

> Btw, from my POV, the ease of searching for characters = not on my
> keyboard is not the main point of this feature.=C2=A0 The main feature= is
> to search for similar characters.=C2=A0 (Of course, I don't mind i= f someone
> likes this for other reasons.)

That's actually my personal preference too. I like that = I can search for "o" and hit "=C3=B5" (both are used in= Portuguese text).
However, this would not be a good _default_ for Brazilian users.=C2=A0 Beca= use once in a while you might not want it, and if the user didn't enabl= e this behaviour himself he probably won't know that it can be disabled= . (at least, this is what I think right now).

> > Although currently Emacs does fold all decompositi= ons by default, this is just temporary. We've said we would turn that o= ff before release (and in fact I'll do that tomorrow (and ammend my pos= t too)).
>
> We didn't say we will turn it off, we said we will _decide_ whethe= r to
> turn it off.=C2=A0 So please don't turn it off just yet, we are st= ill
> collecting feedback.

Sorry, I already did earlier today. Seems I was under the wr= ong impression. Feel free to turn it back on for now.

FTR, my feedback is that I'd like to give the implementa= tion a little more time before enabling it by default on a stable release. =

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