Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 14bb519: * lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el: New "external" package status

Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 14bb519: * lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el: New "external" package status

[Stefan Monnier]

>     An external package is any installed package that's not built-in
>     and not from `package-user-dir', which usually means it's from an
>     entry in `package-directory-list'.  They are treated much like
>     built-in packages, in that they cannot be through the Package Menu
>     deleted and are not considered for upgrades.

Good, thanks.  I'd call them "system packages", tho.  And we should
allow the user to install another version on top of it.


        Stefan

Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 14bb519: * lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el: New "external" package status

[Artur Malabarba]

2015-05-07 19:17 GMT+01:00 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>:
>>     An external package is any installed package that's not built-in
>>     and not from `package-user-dir', which usually means it's from an
>>     entry in `package-directory-list'.  They are treated much like
>>     built-in packages, in that they cannot be through the Package Menu
>>     deleted and are not considered for upgrades.
>
> Good, thanks.  I'd call them "system packages", tho.

I didn't call them "system" because they might just have been
installed by the user. I can change that if preferred, but that brings
me to another topic.

The docstring of `package-directory-list' says it is intended for
system-wide packages. But it seems to me that it would work perfectly
fine for the user's manually installed packages (in fact, that's what
I'm doing here).
This way, if I want to manually download a package to a directory
that's NOT inside ~/.emacs.d/elpa, I can still have package.el
recognize its presence for the purpose of dependencies and such by
adding the directory to `package-directory-list'.

All the functionality already exists, I'm just wondering if I can
document that on the docstring or if there's a reason why this
variable is specifically meant for system packages.

> And we should allow the user to install another version on top of it.

I think we already do. If a more recent version is available from the
archives it is still shown in the menu. It just won't be automatically
marked for installation with the `U' key.

Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 14bb519: * lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el: New "external" package status

[Alan Mackenzie]

Hello, Artur.

On Thu, May 07, 2015 at 07:47:29PM +0100, Artur Malabarba wrote:
> 2015-05-07 19:17 GMT+01:00 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>:
> >>     An external package is any installed package that's not built-in
> >>     and not from `package-user-dir', which usually means it's from an
> >>     entry in `package-directory-list'.  They are treated much like
> >>     built-in packages, in that they cannot be through the Package Menu
> >>     deleted and are not considered for upgrades.

The word order "they cannot be through the Package Menu deleted" is
wrong in English (it would be correct in German ;-).  The correct word
order is "they cannot be deleted through the Package menu".  I don't
think there's any reason to capitalise "menu" either, though I can see
"Package" might want to be capitalised.

Please consider amending your patch to the documentation.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 14bb519: * lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el: New "external" package status

[Artur Malabarba]

2015-05-07 20:12 GMT+01:00 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>:
> Hello, Artur.
>
> On Thu, May 07, 2015 at 07:47:29PM +0100, Artur Malabarba wrote:
>> 2015-05-07 19:17 GMT+01:00 Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>:
>> >>     An external package is any installed package that's not built-in
>> >>     and not from `package-user-dir', which usually means it's from an
>> >>     entry in `package-directory-list'.  They are treated much like
>> >>     built-in packages, in that they cannot be through the Package Menu
>> >>     deleted and are not considered for upgrades.
>
> The word order "they cannot be through the Package Menu deleted" is
> wrong in English (it would be correct in German ;-).  The correct word
> order is "they cannot be deleted through the Package menu".  I don't
> think there's any reason to capitalise "menu" either, though I can see
> "Package" might want to be capitalised.
>
> Please consider amending your patch to the documentation.

Oops. I wish I could use German as an excuse, but it was really a typo. :-(

Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 14bb519: * lisp/emacs-lisp/package.el: New "external" package status

[Stefan Monnier]

> I didn't call them "system" because they might just have been
> installed by the user. I can change that if preferred, but that brings

I don't have a strong opinion on that.

> The docstring of `package-directory-list' says it is intended for
> system-wide packages.  But it seems to me that it would work perfectly
> fine for the user's manually installed packages (in fact, that's what
> I'm doing here).

I put the elpa/packages directory in there too (and elpa/README
suggests doing so as well).

But I tend to think of this case as "installed by my sysadmin-half".

>> And we should allow the user to install another version on top of it.
> I think we already do.  If a more recent version is available from the
> archives it is still shown in the menu.  It just won't be automatically
> marked for installation with the `U' key.

Are, perfect then, thanks,


        Stefan