Re: [elpa] master 24746ff 1/8: Drop Names dependency

Re: [elpa] master 24746ff 1/8: Drop Names dependency

[Stefan Monnier]

>     Drop Names dependency

Curious: why?


        Stefan


PS: I'd guess that you ended up preferring nameless.el, but I'm
interested in the actual details of why/how.

Re: [elpa] master 24746ff 1/8: Drop Names dependency

[Artur Malabarba]

On 13 Oct 2015 8:22 pm, "Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>
> >     Drop Names dependency
>
> Curious: why?
>
> PS: I'd guess that you ended up preferring nameless.el, but I'm
> interested in the actual details of why/how.

Yes I'm currently preferring nameless, though it's just a first assessment.

Comparing the two, they perform very similarly. Names is slightly
nicer when typing [1] and Nameless is slightly nicer when reading [2].
The difference that tips the scale is that Names comes with some
luggage.

- It imposes dependencies at autoload time.
- It makes completion a little less helpful (company-dabbrev
completion still works, but company-capf doesn't).
- It makes code-navigation a little more difficult (it does some
hacking so that things like `find-function/variable' still work, which
is all I ever use, but there are other methods and they will fail)
- It is a proper package dependency that gets installed on the user's
computer. This isn't really a failure. It's just slightly less
convenient than Nameless which is not a dependency.

Since Nameless is just completely clean, I'm leaning more towards it
right now. Not that I'm any less proud of Names. :-)
Sometimes you gotta climb a mountain to see that there's another way.


Artur

[1]: Not having to type the namespace is better than having a key that
inserts the namespace.
[2]: Both hide the namespace, but Nameless adds a colored ":" to the
symbol, which differentiates locals from globals and makes the code
slightly easier to understand.

Re: [elpa] master 24746ff 1/8: Drop Names dependency

[Przemysław Wojnowski]

W dniu 13.10.2015 o 23:33, Artur Malabarba pisze:
[...]
> Comparing the two, they perform very similarly. Names is slightly
> nicer when typing [1] and Nameless is slightly nicer when reading [2].

IIUC these two packages are workarounds for lack of namespaces in elisp, right?
Is there any reason for not adding them?
AFAIK there were some proposals. Were they insufficient or, in general, there's 
not agreement for adding them?

PS I don't want to start another 100 mails long thread. Simple "y/n" answers are ok.

Thanks,
Przemysław

Re: [elpa] master 24746ff 1/8: Drop Names dependency

[Artur Malabarba]

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On 15 Oct 2015 3:49 pm, "Przemysław Wojnowski" <esperanto@cumego.com> wrote:
>
> W dniu 13.10.2015 o 23:33, Artur Malabarba pisze:
> [...]
>
>> Comparing the two, they perform very similarly. Names is slightly
>> nicer when typing [1] and Nameless is slightly nicer when reading [2].
>
>
> IIUC these two packages are workarounds for lack of namespaces in elisp,
right?
> Is there any reason for not adding them?
> AFAIK there were some proposals. Were they insufficient or, in general,
there's not agreement for adding them?
>
> PS I don't want to start another 100 mails long thread. Simple "y/n"
answers are ok.

I've only ever seen very brief proposals. AFAIK, there is no agreement.
Frankly, even if someone came up with a full implementation I wouldn't have
the energy to join the discussion. The technical aspects don't really
bother me, and the reading/writing inconvenience has now been addressed.

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