From: Artur Malabarba <bruce.connor.am@gmail.com>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@gmail.com>
Cc: "Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer" <taylanbayirli@gmail.com>,
Kaushal <kaushal.modi@gmail.com>,
"Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Calling (package-initialize) sooner during initialization
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2015 09:11:02 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAAdUY-JDGAern4_Tn_QxQ8QZqqLd8n4G-1U6dJr_yA7S9AbYFg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAArVCkSOrOUjomp-MgCjk9+YjvdFbn98Vua_sAWeBH5kpk5_5g@mail.gmail.com>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3181 bytes --]
On Apr 19, 2015 7:44 AM, "Philipp Stephani" <p.stephani2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer <taylanbayirli@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa.,
18. Apr. 2015 um 20:04 Uhr:
>>
>> Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:
>>
>> > I think all those discussions are missing the point.
>> > If we want to improve the system to the point of considering adding new
>> > init files, then we should try and fix other problems at the same time.
>> >
>> > So here's one of the larger problems:
>> >
>> > How can we make the system work such that the user can:
>> > - Use customize to set package-user-dir, package-pinned-packages,
etc...
>> > - Use customize to configure a variable which has a :require which
loads
>> > a file that's only available after calling package-initialize.
>> > The first requires package-initialize to be called late, the second
>> > requires package-initialize to be called early.
>> >
>> > Maybe a solution is to simply make customize-set-variables lazier, so
>> > that variables with a :require see their setting delayed to after
>> > package-initialize was called. Or else, have package-initialize be
>> > called by customize-set-variables. Or...
>>
>> I'm not sure if this isn't an orthogonal problem, but indeed as someone
>> who doesn't use Customize I didn't think about it at all, and know
>> little about it so excuses in advance for ignorance.
>>
>> How about Customize being "smart" and separating package-related
>> configurations from other ones? I don't know how hard it would be to
>> implement, but it feels like the right design; obviously package related
>> customization should be applied before package-initialize, but all other
>> customization should be applied after package-initialize, since it's a
>> configuration system, meaning it should be one layer above the package
>> system, going purely by intuition.
>>
>> So startup would look like:
>>
>> 1. pre-package-init.el
>> 2. Package related customization.
>> 3. package-initialize
>> 4. init.el
>> 5. All other customization.
>>
>> Would that work?
>
>
> I think that would be a good solution, although I'd modify it a bit:
>
> 1. Contents of init.el before applying customizations.
I'm afraid this step is already a problem. If these initial contents
contain a (require 'some-package), the user will be given an error during
initialization.
That's why Taylan's solution has an extra file. It's annoying, but
necessary.
> 2. Applying customizations, either inline in init.el or by loading
custom.el from init.el
> 2.a. Package related customization
> 2.b. package-initialize
> 2.c. All other customization
> 3. Rest of init.el
>
> That would be closer to the current behavior and eliminate the need for
pre-package-init.el.
It would be so close to the current behaviour that the problem wouldn't be
solved. ;-)
The point here is that it needs to just work for the less knowledgeable
user. We can't expect them to move their call to (require 'some-package)
until after the custom.el snippet is loaded. Not to mention, they might not
even have such a snippet.
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4096 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-04-19 8:11 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-04-18 12:25 Calling (package-initialize) sooner during initialization Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-18 13:32 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 14:24 ` Nic Ferrier
2015-04-18 15:16 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-18 17:35 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 18:25 ` Nic Ferrier
2015-04-18 18:48 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 15:11 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-18 17:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-18 17:56 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-18 18:16 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-18 18:32 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-19 0:24 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-19 0:38 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 18:24 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 18:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-04-19 8:19 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-18 18:04 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-18 18:23 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-19 3:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-19 6:44 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-04-19 8:11 ` Artur Malabarba [this message]
2015-04-18 22:37 ` chad
2015-04-19 6:40 ` Philipp Stephani
2015-04-19 8:04 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-20 0:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 7:54 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-20 12:42 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 14:31 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-20 16:01 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-20 17:29 ` chad
2015-04-20 18:38 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-20 19:40 ` chad
2015-04-20 19:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-20 15:19 ` Mark Oteiza
2015-04-27 9:52 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-04-27 11:03 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-04-27 14:01 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-27 12:32 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-27 14:10 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-27 14:15 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-27 14:36 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-04-27 12:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-27 13:43 ` Andy Moreton
2015-04-27 15:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-28 10:11 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-28 7:25 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-04-28 7:39 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-28 7:42 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-04-28 14:54 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-04-28 16:46 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-28 17:29 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-04-28 18:52 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-29 1:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-28 15:32 ` raman
2015-04-29 8:25 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-04-28 15:26 ` raman
2015-04-27 14:13 ` Drew Adams
2015-04-27 14:46 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-04-27 15:15 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-27 15:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-28 0:30 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-04-29 8:01 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-04-29 13:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-28 0:25 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2015-04-12 12:09 Jorgen Schäfer
2015-04-12 14:26 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12 14:45 ` Jorgen Schäfer
2015-04-12 20:46 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-12 14:40 ` Aneesh Kumar K.V
2015-04-12 16:23 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12 20:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-12 21:02 ` Jorgen Schäfer
2015-04-12 23:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-13 22:52 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-13 22:49 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-11 23:10 Vasilij Schneidermann
2015-04-12 1:00 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12 16:46 ` Mark Oteiza
2015-04-12 19:43 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12 20:05 ` Mark Oteiza
2015-04-12 20:28 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12 3:56 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-12 9:58 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-12 12:02 ` Stefan Monnier
[not found] ` <20150412082125.GA490@odonien>
2015-04-12 10:07 ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2015-04-12 10:28 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-03-30 19:01 Artur Malabarba
2015-03-30 20:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-31 10:52 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-03-31 12:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-18 10:46 ` Ted Zlatanov
2015-03-31 8:53 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-03-31 10:55 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-03-31 12:29 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-31 12:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-03-31 13:19 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-03-31 13:47 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-03-31 14:03 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-03-31 14:56 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-04-01 6:04 ` Thierry Volpiatto
2015-03-31 14:51 ` Sebastian Wiesner
2015-03-31 15:40 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-03-31 20:46 ` Stefan Monnier
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=CAAdUY-JDGAern4_Tn_QxQ8QZqqLd8n4G-1U6dJr_yA7S9AbYFg@mail.gmail.com \
--to=bruce.connor.am@gmail.com \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
--cc=kaushal.modi@gmail.com \
--cc=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca \
--cc=p.stephani2@gmail.com \
--cc=taylanbayirli@gmail.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.