From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ken manheimer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Should undefined behavior be encouraged in Emacs? Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 14:06:23 -0400 Message-ID: References: <4E89124D.8070405@cs.ucla.edu> <4E895885.5060201@online.de> <87ehyu1qk7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <4E89794F.8040706@online.de> <87zkheg8xc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <874nzlsxwf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <4E8E0AB4.1050900@online.de> <20111007112652.2d07ffd4@resist.wooz.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364c741d81c50404aeb94d69 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1318010813 18446 80.91.229.12 (7 Oct 2011 18:06:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 18:06:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Barry Warsaw Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 07 20:06:48 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RCEoq-000813-Jm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 20:06:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50027 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RCEop-0008Ae-Hb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:06:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:33966) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RCEol-0008AM-NY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:06:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RCEoj-0003C5-OR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:06:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ey0-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169]:62399) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RCEoj-0003Bj-C1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 14:06:41 -0400 Original-Received: by eyb7 with SMTP id 7so327437eyb.0 for ; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 11:06:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=vZw7bwNX7mwiyE+z9OfJMsUX4YijAnJcfDe1Q2fdw6A=; b=Wu5luCm1vX5lRFtysLnpjCBlS9lPuwlGx4AjGu5KtYs73VQE2UK+wZF0jI6YtfpzM/ 1zoYZjpEV4RTqjtrt91s6sfhkpmn97CkpHdwIJnvXXSRe3OMNgSTeexb34CWFL8kdL0z sIvj4puJsLhk9Aq6e4H+CvhmBkjI1ckcK05C0= Original-Received: by 10.14.9.198 with SMTP id 46mr363528eet.202.1318010799374; Fri, 07 Oct 2011 11:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.14.37.13 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Oct 2011 11:06:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20111007112652.2d07ffd4@resist.wooz.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 209.85.215.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144709 Archived-At: --0016364c741d81c50404aeb94d69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Oct 06, 2011, at 10:12 PM, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: > > >Andreas R=F6hler writes: > > > >> for me transient-mark-mode in connection with a mark set is enough. > > > >Oh, are we having this discussion again? > > > >I, like (I'm assuming) all other oldey-timey Emacs users :-), disabled > >`transient-mark-mode' the first chance I got. And the reason for that > >is that `C-x C-x' activates the region, which makes it impossible to use > >that command to jump around in buffers. Which I do constantly. > > > >If that rather odd overloading of the `C-x C-x' command went away, I > >might start using `transient-mark-mode'. > i'm jumping in the discussion to say a bit more about namedmarks.el, which barry mentioned, but while i'm here. i'm an old timer that leaves transien= t mark mode active, and likes it - but i think it's tolerable because i customized the 'region' face to be only slightly different than the background, so it's barely noticeable. (i set the region background to darkslategray, which blends in almost but not quite completely with the black background which i have as the default for my emacs frames.) barry: [...] > One quick note about C-x C-x and C-space. For several decades now I've > used Ken Manheimer's most awesome namedmarks code[1]. With no C-u, these > work just like their default cousins (I think, it's been a long time), bu= t > with an argument, they allow you to name locations in the buffer. E.g. > > C-u C-space > -> Set named mark: > here RET > (move somewhere far away) > C-u C-x C-x > -> Goto mark named (default here) > RET > > jumps you back to the mark named 'here'. Of course, you can have any > number of named marks, and both prompts support completion. It's a > testament to its elegant simplicity that I don't think this code has been > touched in 20 years and still works beautifully. It's a great addition t= o > the core UI, IMO. Notably, going to a named mark does *not* activate the > region, which I think makes perfect sense given that I'm often jumping > around over several screen fulls. I don't think I could function without > namedmarks. > me, too! :-) i've just now put a more legible - but essentially unchanged = - copy of namedmarks.el on my current site, and would love to see it incorporated in emacs. the view in that location is more usable than the old location which barry mentions (and i put a redirect there - a bit of overdue tidying...) ken -Barry > > [1] My local copy is (C) 1991 FSF, which looks pretty close to > http://wiki.zope.org/klm/namedmarks.el > --0016364c741d81c50404aeb94d69 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> wrote:
On Oct 06, 2011, at 10:12 PM, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wro= te:

>Andreas R=F6hler <andre= as.roehler@online.de> writes:
>
>> for me transient-mark-mode in connection with a mark set is enough= .
>
>Oh, are we having this discussion again?
>
>I, like (I'm assuming) all other oldey-timey Emacs users :-), disab= led
>`transient-mark-mode' the first chance I got. =A0And the reason for= that
>is that `C-x C-x' activates the region, which makes it impossible t= o use
>that command to jump around in buffers. =A0Which I do constantly.
>
>If that rather odd overloading of the `C-x C-x' command went away, = I
>might start using `transient-mark-mode'.

i'm jumping in the discussion to say a bit more about n= amedmarks.el, which barry mentioned, but while i'm here. =A0i'm an = old timer that leaves transient mark mode active, and likes it - but i thin= k it's tolerable because i customized the 'region' face to be o= nly slightly different than the background, so it's barely noticeable. = =A0(i set the region background to darkslategray, which blends in almost bu= t not quite completely with the black background which i have as the defaul= t for my emacs frames.)

barry:
=A0
[...]

One quick note about C-x C-x and C-space. =A0For several decades now I'= ve used=A0Ken Manheimer's most awesome namedmarks code[1]. =A0With no C= -u, these work just=A0like their default cousins (I think, it's been a = long time), but with an=A0argument, they allow you to name locations in the= buffer. =A0E.g.

C-u C-space
-> Set named mark:
here RET
(move somewhere far away)
C-u C-x C-x
-> Goto mark named (default here)
RET

jumps you back to the mark named 'here'. =A0Of course, you can have= any number=A0of named marks, and both prompts support completion. =A0It= 9;s a testament to its=A0elegant simplicity that I don't think this cod= e has been touched in 20 years=A0and still works beautifully. =A0It's a= great addition to the core UI, IMO. =A0Notably, going to a named mark does= *not* activate the region, which I think=A0makes perfect sense given that = I'm often jumping around over several screen=A0fulls. =A0I don't th= ink I could function without namedmarks.

me, too! :-) =A0i've just now put a mo= re legible - but essentially unchanged - copy of namedmarks.el on my current site, and would love to see it inco= rporated in emacs. =A0the view in that location is more usable than the old= location which barry mentions (and i put a redirect there - a bit of overd= ue tidying...)

ken

-Barry

[1] My local copy is (C) 1991 FSF, which looks pretty close to
http:/= /wiki.zope.org/klm/namedmarks.el

--0016364c741d81c50404aeb94d69--