From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xue Fuqiao Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add prettify symbols to python-mode Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 22:12:30 +0800 Message-ID: References: <1442777283-27514-1-git-send-email-mvoteiza@udel.edu> <20150921005306.GA29147@holos> <87h9mlwt6l.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83bnctliay.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443017811 26315 80.91.229.3 (23 Sep 2015 14:16:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 14:16:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Achim Gratz , Emacs-devel To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 23 16:16:50 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zekqf-0003jk-Iz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:16:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48088 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zekqf-0006Pg-1y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:16:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60447) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zekmg-0000jZ-BX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:12:40 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zekmf-0007F6-D6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:12:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ob0-x235.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c01::235]:35950) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zekmd-0007DX-Dn; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:12:31 -0400 Original-Received: by obbmp4 with SMTP id mp4so34009956obb.3; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 07:12:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=j26uNaRjqjKVN7x90YbJ7mvXZOAuuJcH9GjBOg0wqW0=; b=BsMoudiF9cqn5JpU5l2B3eIkikXpWRjnZ02vvxLj9e47bwTYvNPKRvNOKsI+1UDLG1 gRmSatu/LujHM3NlPx/zvvFX/QtgMyK8gXHDb7YwvmTAowSz4t3PIupZu26puuY3jqHq Ci3tr8YgSwMhwxPiAx+xL3Yns0F0Y8lASdgb2ITOQAwvoGMh90nXnt9AavksFEGrgBdv kB3tQQ+vENew+xgbbgd9M0U8sZ32iOWpLm66wcMQbRC4nNjOQySK4p247i8A35eEYYg/ m3JdKeWtRbm4lVdyXQHwdCA4oahzevV5eoHMEu1nZk6BmxgG/AiotN/UEg/qdD09KM1h dGXw== X-Received: by 10.182.246.193 with SMTP id xy1mr9605830obc.64.1443017550162; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 07:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.202.69.130 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 07:12:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83bnctliay.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::235 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190287 Archived-At: On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > One of the gravest problems I see for the future of Emacs development > is that we slowly but steadily lose old-timers who know a lot about > the Emacs internals and have lots of experience hacking them, whereas > the (welcome) newcomers mostly prefer working on application-level > code in Lisp. If this tendency continues, we will soon lose the > ability to make deep infrastructure changes, i.e. will be unable to > add new features that need non-trivial changes on the C level. Yes, this is also what I see. As a "newcomer" (in comparison with most Emacs hackers on this list, who have been contributing to Emacs for much longer than me, and have a deeper understanding of the system as a whole), some possible causes for this problem are: * Hacking on the C level is inherently more difficult than the Lisp (application) level. * Perhaps our effort on (info "(elisp) GNU Emacs Internals") is not enough. (Although it's almost impossible to document the ins and outs of the Emacs Lisp interpreter, the redisplay code, and other C infrastructure in Emacs, let alone having them updated.) * There is a deeper going split between the core developers and the rest of the community (this one is not specific to C/Lisp, and has many technical and non-technical reasons). * Many times, discussions on emacs-devel are defensive rather than constructive (not specific to C either). * Emacs runs on all versions of Windows from Windows 98 and Windows NT 4.0 through to Windows 10, and even MS-DOS (although msdos.c is pretty easy to read). I'm not sure whether the maintenance burden is worthy. (Anyway, Eli, I have great respect for you and your contributions to Emacs.) * Many developers think that the indentation style of the GNU Coding Standards is ugly (as condemned by the Linux kernel coding style guide ;-). Currently, I don't have any concrete proposal to figuring out a practical solution, but I'll do my bit and try to improve Emacs's condition.