From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xue Fuqiao Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add prettify symbols to python-mode Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 21:06:45 +0800 Message-ID: References: <1442777283-27514-1-git-send-email-mvoteiza@udel.edu> <20150921005306.GA29147@holos> <87h9mlwt6l.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83bnctliay.fsf@gnu.org> <874mik6wqp.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443100030 6801 80.91.229.3 (24 Sep 2015 13:07:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 13:07:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Achim Gratz , Emacs-devel To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 24 15:07:09 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf6Ev-0005GR-AC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 15:07:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34299 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf6Et-0007jd-Q9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:07:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60948) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf6Eg-0007Wv-8a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:06:55 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf6Ef-0007PN-Fh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:06:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ig0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c05::230]:35775) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zf6EX-0007Nv-Uk; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 09:06:46 -0400 Original-Received: by igbkq10 with SMTP id kq10so120553846igb.0; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 06:06:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=UV2sEUz06wnbSYf48Math6MbPlcMVOgH3dXCnq3Ptkg=; b=XiTP4sCW6vE66HamchxlzSKpuoXuhElKKAHii5C+4Wta7M+Uk/xkrA59nuvIRYVcfv n6gbXbIzKOj6dvwU1bUxBCmSBQwP04FfGPjlS2S9JY2ZyY2vvItuh4CAulc4FxnuPvD8 0zfYJagwkQ36z8CuhxPb3+xwu4/FdHMAU1AeqYs9wVcqPOO566xtCtbHIUkNGRMWZP/E 3+IjbaAROaf7tBLobof63Xuy/1ca5YfvgvPkO/OTOuOuVakrupEfhai0IC6frVyb9xtn znYIfT5QC3+nEfyembcvgDv4zBiYja19gHAkY/Ow0oWJ+qvwxUFrFaFZ1IHtvZ2paw9P 9NSg== X-Received: by 10.50.79.164 with SMTP id k4mr376618igx.16.1443100005419; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 06:06:45 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.79.94.2 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Sep 2015 06:06:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <874mik6wqp.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c05::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190329 Archived-At: On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 4:35 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > Xue Fuqiao writes: > >> BTW, I was just trying making an analysis of the this problem, and of >> course my analysis could be wrong. Do you have any idea why newcomers >> mostly prefer working on application-level code in Lisp? > > In my opinion that's a feature, not a bug. Elisp is there for a reason. > >> (Let's try and stay constructive. If we can find the causes, then we >> have the possibility to improve the current condition.) > > We have Elisp exactly in order not to have to address problems by > reverting to C programming. In my opinion it is entirely the wrong idea > to have people start solving problems in C because they prefer it to > Elisp. The main reason to solve problems in C is because there is no > reasonably workable solution to be created in Elisp. If beginners turn > to C first, they will not even know whether there would be a reasonably > workable solution available in Elisp. > > Elisp code can be debugged reasonably nicely, manages its memory and > data structures reliably. It's concise, memory-efficient and > expressive. I completely agree with these views, and that's one of the reasons I use Emacs. But Eli said: If this tendency continues, we will soon lose the ability to make deep infrastructure changes, i.e. will be unable to add new features that need non-trivial changes on the C level. Solving problems in C is useful for "deep infrastructure changes", like xwidget, dynload/modules, bidi, lexical scoping, GnuTLS support, font rendering, Emacs server etc.