From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?6Lev5a6i?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [elpa] master 74818d5: Brief Mode v5.86 release. Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 11:40:02 +0800 Message-ID: References: <20181018141131.22680.53035@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20181018141132.6E8BA208EC@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007e281f0578b4e6c4" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1540093157 3178 195.159.176.226 (21 Oct 2018 03:39:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2018 03:39:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs developers To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 21 05:39:13 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gE4a8-0000kK-Mi for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2018 05:39:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57348 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gE4cF-0007B6-0u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 23:41:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39256) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gE4ba-0007B1-N6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 23:40:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gE4bZ-0007zT-Br for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 23:40:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x535.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::535]:46369) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gE4bZ-0007ym-1y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 23:40:41 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x535.google.com with SMTP id v22-v6so1819606eds.13 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 20:40:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Kk8P9xbhGfWswGaucnQB+2agiVf9LMdThZZaYylnQgM=; b=qtBPpAMwWrPRtpwW3YCQ0K4RJij/Y3YcK5Cb8E4HBOpeX5VPlELTnyWWqV2rddaYjK 56ZCl5HrXNq0g5K8MkG9d6HIDTN5/vR5rIbPxqVXR3duV7rwD8OmXnrTeXUbMS5u3DWG J5B/TBnbwXNb4zNSJqdbZpCrhaBFwv0vqwJQ9rr56F86EzelrOCem9bRBNuToMdJDE0Q 9k47KBrglT57PoVZaKPkYaudB0np/kL5+T7ftlTwXAzBl7XWBf63pefL9XMUC5XlB7ko akvJWpPYGHkzZX2ZUpjz3VOAe+AO3a4zadzR6escMWsyW1b3adB/YiWjNpn/QgB4GZrV lkIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Kk8P9xbhGfWswGaucnQB+2agiVf9LMdThZZaYylnQgM=; b=AxL8fY+II90ORnC3BKAfmMaJoGT4TtgoijMMTx72a74D8qjwimgqX6yJ+rcGjBSJkE faIES4Wt3/rQfnqykYUduMt3dTppqXYGb3NpXTMlFBDMwb+HINT4Rv4QVKCRiGjIiai8 CRtpfm5antItbkfpdD/FvGfRXy5Cqq/6uBOdQdzoXA38PjvF928+4CAYVl9R3oO/GRmk xPC+q1avHs78vL0/FJYPOnpn61C8cVHqLUHogitoJquTofxkVSzhFGSIkBWgjIJyebNZ bXe12YJid/yk9I4jPzR6IwaXbxKZrI9B6CC/p6rA5JvqxBtMnC9DtO80nfoqI3yJUHiX CcDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfohkjLEBd+ccnxQ48ktxL3b+AukHqsNxVzT/hl9ZW9kVaNRJuoFv ILD05T4cw+vYHQOPSOJWSQKkGaetud2AsrkogPoQce0N X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV62CXGAFaO9RIbQdv76uCNmTQo19ANWzFPwfF/K2cfThMPkPcUjCuquWlvtWebeqt8YHak/+KrPhH34VFDRCkcM= X-Received: by 2002:a50:e38d:: with SMTP id b13-v6mr9799029edm.263.1540093240025; Sat, 20 Oct 2018 20:40:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4864:20::535 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:230535 Archived-At: --0000000000007e281f0578b4e6c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > But that's also the "normal" package.el installation, so there's no need > to search for brief.el: after the above command, Emacs will know where > to find brief.el and `b` could just fire `emacs -f brief-mode` and be > done with it. Aside from the major purpose of 'b' for new users, there is a minor purpose of 'b' -- a quick convenient shortcut for experienced users, a pure & clean Emacs+Brief environment. Just like the "-q" or "-Q" argument is for Emacs. You might notice by default I add "-q" in 'b' and gave an "-nq" to reverse it. I would like 'b' to behave just like "emacs -q" or "emacs -Q", but, with BriefMode as it's default keymap. For myself, I from time to time need to launch a clean emacs env (to bypass my lengthy .emacs init seq) for some quick editing, sometimes emacsclient is just not adequate, therefore the "emacs -q" was supposed to be good enough for that but just lack of the brief keymap. Therefore with "-q" so I can't just fire it with "-f brief-mode" and therefore it came along with the version/path things. If you have a better way to launch Emacs with -q while being able to do similar things like "-f brief-mode", *please definitively let me know*. I myself don't like those default version things but I got no better way. For a personal script I don't have that locally; but when it extended for other users or new users, with Brief as an installed Emacs package, I can't find a faster way to direct access "~/.emacs.d/elpa/brief-XXX" without any searching. As I mentioned in my earlier reply I can make things more complicated by things like a 'find ~/.emacs.d/elpa -name b' but then I will need to sort "by versions" if there are several versions returned (which involves *version format* comparison like: v5.100 > v5.90). Of course, this won't happen immediately as currently there is only v5.86. But once there are more other versions installed it suppose to slow down things. > That's also why I suggested introducing another function (like > `brief-mode-full`) which would call brief plus setup those > (h)scroll vars. Yap, that's a good idea and I can get rid of those default settings in 'b' altogether. I will do that in my next release. Best regards, Luke Lee Stefan Monnier =E6=96=BC 2018=E5=B9=B410=E6=9C= =8821=E6=97=A5 =E9=80=B1=E6=97=A5 =E4=B8=8A=E5=8D=882:51=E5=AF=AB=E9=81=93= =EF=BC=9A > >> Not sure what you mean exactly, here: `b` is a script that's part of t= he > >> `brief` GNU ELPA package. So to get this script, they've had to > >> "install" (at the very least download and unpack) that package already= . > >> The easiest way to install it is with `M-x package-install RET`, AFAIK > > > > In EmacsWiki page (or "README.org") I suggest this command line: > > > > $ emacs -Q -eval "(progn (package-initialize) (package-refresh-contents= ) > \ > > (package-install 'brief) (save-buffers-kill-emacs))" > > > > so basically a new user only need to copy&paste this command... > > But that's also the "normal" package.el installation, so there's no need > to search for brief.el: after the above command, Emacs will know where > to find brief.el and `b` could just fire `emacs -f brief-mode` and be > done with it. > > > However I am facing another more basic problem that I can't make > > either 'b' or 'README.org' packed into brief package. I read thru all > > the multi-file related info but they seems only applies to .el files. > > I am still trying, if I still can't even pack 'b' or README.org I will > just > > put them in github and modify EmacsWiki and README.org about the above > > command line without even using package. Of course the 'b' would need > > to be modified accordingly. > > IIUC you found the answer in the mean time: the package header needed > a `Package-Type: multi`. > > > Once users find the behavior of launching 'b' and of Emacs+briefpkg > > differs, they will findout in the 'b' script. Surely better be in > > README.org. > > That's also why I suggested introducing another function (like > `brief-mode-full`) which would call brief plus setup those > (h)scroll vars. > > > Stefan > --=20 Best regards, Luke Lee --0000000000007e281f0578b4e6c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> But that's also= the "normal" package.el installation, so there's no need
= > to search for brief.el: after the above command, Emacs will know where=
> to find brief.el and `b` could just fire `emacs -f brief-mode` and= be
> done with it.

Aside from the major purpose of 'b'= ; for new users, there is a minor
purpose of 'b' -- a quick conv= enient shortcut for experienced users,
a pure & clean Emacs+Brief en= vironment.=C2=A0 Just like the "-q" or "-Q"
argument= is for Emacs. You might notice by default I add "-q" in 'b&#= 39;
and gave an "-nq" to reverse it.=C2=A0 I would like 'b= ' to behave just like
"emacs -q" or "emacs -Q", = but, with BriefMode as it's default keymap.

For myself, I from t= ime to time need to launch a clean emacs env (to
bypass my lengthy .emac= s init seq) for some quick editing, sometimes
emacsclient is just not ad= equate, therefore the "emacs -q" was
supposed to be good enoug= h for that but just lack of the brief keymap.
Therefore with "-q&qu= ot; so I can't just fire it with "-f brief-mode" and
there= fore it came along with the version/path things.

If you have a bette= r way to launch Emacs with -q while being able to do
similar things like= "-f brief-mode", *please definitively let me know*.
I myself = don't like those default version things but I got no better
way.=C2= =A0 For a personal script I don't have that locally; but when it
ext= ended for other users or new users, with Brief as an installed
Emacs pac= kage, I can't find a faster way to direct access
"~/.emacs.d/el= pa/brief-XXX" without any searching.=C2=A0 As I mentioned
in my ear= lier reply I can make things more complicated by things like
a 'find= ~/.emacs.d/elpa -name b' but then I will need to sort
"by vers= ions" if there are several versions returned (which involves
*versi= on format* comparison like: v5.100 > v5.90). Of course, this
won'= t happen immediately as currently there is only v5.86.=C2=A0 But once
th= ere are more other versions installed it suppose to slow down things.
> That's also why I suggested introducing another function (like> `brief-mode-full`) which would call brief plus setup those
> (= h)scroll vars.

Yap, that's a good idea and I can get rid of thos= e default settings
in 'b' altogether.=C2=A0 I will do that in my= next release.

Best regards,
=
Luke Lee

Stefan Monnier <mon= nier@iro.umontreal.ca> =E6=96=BC 2018=E5=B9=B410=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5= =E9=80=B1=E6=97=A5 =E4=B8=8A=E5=8D=882:51=E5=AF=AB=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
>> Not sure what you mean exactly,= here: `b` is a script that's part of the
>> `brief` GNU ELPA package.=C2=A0 So to get this script, they've= had to
>> "install" (at the very least download and unpack) that p= ackage already.
>> The easiest way to install it is with `M-x package-install RET`, A= FAIK
>
> In EmacsWiki page (or "README.org") I suggest this command l= ine:
>
> $ emacs -Q -eval "(progn (package-initialize) (package-refresh-co= ntents) \
> (package-install 'brief) (save-buffers-kill-emacs))"
>
> so basically a new user only need to copy&paste this command...
But that's also the "normal" package.el installation, so ther= e's no need
to search for brief.el: after the above command, Emacs will know where
to find brief.el and `b` could just fire `emacs -f brief-mode` and be
done with it.

> However I am facing another more basic problem that I can't make > either 'b' or 'README.org' packed into brief package.= =C2=A0 I read thru all
> the multi-file related info but they seems only applies to .el files.<= br> > I am still trying, if I still can't even pack 'b' or READM= E.org I will just
> put them in github and modify EmacsWiki and README.org about the above=
> command line without even using package.=C2=A0 Of course the 'b= 9; would need
> to be modified accordingly.

IIUC you found the answer in the mean time: the package header needed
a `Package-Type: multi`.

> Once users find the behavior of launching 'b' and of Emacs+bri= efpkg
> differs, they will findout in the 'b' script.=C2=A0 Surely bet= ter be in
> README.org.

That's also why I suggested introducing another function (like
`brief-mode-full`) which would call brief plus setup those
(h)scroll vars.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Stefan


--
Best regards,
Luke L= ee

--0000000000007e281f0578b4e6c4--