From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chad Brown Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-d deleting region considered harmful Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:34:47 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87eicrx1ls.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4C94E03D.8090002@gmail.com> <87fwx699pc.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <83tylmyclx.fsf@gnu.org> <4C961787.3090907@gmail.com> <878w2xsigj.fsf@gmail.com> <87zkvd5hwa.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1285000505 26773 80.91.229.12 (20 Sep 2010 16:35:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 16:35:05 +0000 (UTC) To: Emacs-Devel devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 20 18:35:04 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxjKY-0008NU-AP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:35:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53905 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OxjKX-0004xU-JW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:35:01 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=49199 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OxjKO-0004va-MZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:34:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxjKN-0006bi-GO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:34:52 -0400 Original-Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu ([18.7.68.35]:58101) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OxjKN-0006be-Bk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:34:51 -0400 X-AuditID: 12074423-b7b19ae0000059ef-73-4c978d057815 Original-Received: from mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.36]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-6.mit.edu (Symantec Brightmail Gateway) with SMTP id 69.8D.23023.50D879C4; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id o8KGYodb008346 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:34:50 -0400 Original-Received: from [10.0.1.194] (c-71-231-113-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [71.231.113.235]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as yandros@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id o8KGYlXo011421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:34:50 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <87zkvd5hwa.fsf@catnip.gol.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1081) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAARYGOcM= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:130543 Archived-At: On Sep 19, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Miles Bader wrote: >> Perhaps `C-x C-x' is the prime annoyance factor here? It certainly = was >> for me. Perhaps it just shouldn't activate the transient mark mode? >=20 > Not a good idea, I think, since one of the primary uses of C-x C-x is = to > re-activate the region! [for me about 90% of the time I think...] Not to point the ``you're wrong!'' finger, but I suspect that this is = not the=20 primary use of C-xC-x for *most* people, but instead is the use for a narrow selection of people who learned to appreciate using the active=20 region with the keyboard before mouse/shift-selection was really common. I suspect that the people (like me, admittedly) who started to really = learn emacs before transient regions had already internalized C-xC-x as `hop=20= between two spots', and the newer people who are used to graphical feedback flourishes like a highlighted active region are used to setting = the mark explicitly, or using either the mouse or shift-selection. I suggest adding a flag to invert the default meaning of ARG in exchange-point-and-mark, at least as an experiment. I suspect that the new behavior would be more in line with expected behavior for most people, but it'd be hard to determine, and it seems reasonable to default to the existing behavior in such a situation. I'll see if I can put together a patch and try it out. *Chad=