From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs's handling of line numbers [from bug#5042] Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:40:54 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8339yucbsg.fsf@gnu.org> <83wrw5bxkc.fsf@gnu.org> <83tyr9bgid.fsf@gnu.org> <87aat1b2sr.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1271609002 19718 80.91.229.12 (18 Apr 2010 16:43:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:43:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Juanma Barranquero' , mark.lillibridge@hp.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Juri Linkov' , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 'Eli Zaretskii' To: "'Lennart Borgman'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 18 18:43:20 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O3XaZ-0004iq-G3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 18:43:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50570 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O3XaZ-00031R-0w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:43:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1O3XZY-0002T7-7V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:42:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54849 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O3XZW-0002SP-Ty for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:42:15 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O3XZV-0000oh-BB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:42:14 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:38980) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O3XZV-0000oY-5v; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 12:42:13 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o3IGg7dN018444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:42:09 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o3IEVo3X015481; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:42:06 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 169069921271608840; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:40:40 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.175.221.180) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 18 Apr 2010 09:40:39 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: Acre/jLeaBYsyARaRs6fMC+72+PhawAE9XWw In-Reply-To: X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-Source-IP: rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090205.4BCB3661.00C9:SCFMA4539811,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:123844 Archived-At: > >> > For the same reason that the narrowing stack that Drew > >> > proposes could be useful: if I'm reading an Info node, my > >> > narrowing/widening shouldn't interfere with the use of narrowing > >> > by Info-mode, because that's just an artifact of its > >> > implementation. Being able to do M-x widen in an Info node > >> > and seeing the whole buffer is IMO a "bug" > >> > because it destroys the abstraction. > >> > >> I agree that user commands (with the prefix map `C-x n') should not > >> widen or narrow the Info buffer outside of the current Info node. > >> Only some low-level functions should be allowed to do this. > > > > That's going too far, IMO. As Eli will perhaps point out > > (see bug #5839), there are reasons that some users will > > want to widen Info buffers. > > I think Juri sugggested that there should not be an interactive > command for doing that. Would not low level elisp functions be enough > for the purpose of widening Info buffers? (All commands are interactive.) Yes, I understood that that was Juri's suggestion. I disagree - `widen' should be a user command. And it should be available (but not especially encouraged) in Info - see the reasons that Eli gave in the bug #5839 thread as one example. The proper way to tame widening is not to eliminate `widen' as a user command or to restrict its use in a coarse, black-and-white way. The proper way is to: 1. Remove the button on the `Narrow' lighter in modes such as Info where we don't want newbies to narrow without knowing what they're doing. (And perhaps (_perhaps_), in such contexts, also ask for confirmation if the user invokes `widen' in such a context. We already disable the command by default.) 2. Provide another command, `widen-one-level', which gives users more control over the scope of widening. It would give them the same degree of control they have now for narrowing. (No, this wouldn't prevent a user from widening to the top level in Info, but it would give users more control generally.)