From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id 8EC/AAoFs19HCwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:02:34 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id yJBBOAkFs1/FQQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:02:33 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3838940367 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:02:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:34522 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kenW4-0002Om-MD for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:02:32 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48378) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kenVQ-0002OA-HN for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:01:52 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-x333.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::333]:51486) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kenVO-0002j5-Ov for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:01:52 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-x333.google.com with SMTP id 19so1097319wmf.1 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 15:01:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=K8MLkJh8elzO+PHiqbmObzi/C7D35PuDq7THsdaPYrI=; b=dcK/Ju5Vvlh4Flr2yV7DeBBYIwdEBfvy04YEVJmeD6L4n+yjPA4dR33g5ju2jimbB7 LOFxgn59zPp/M31w8qzr1n6/Be93a/T4c1rF7EJd0RziH6OnUOBXILxii/Pues4gbFD4 KTKQX/d4hVDu506ZR+zTJ0iM79SQ2ix/tc+2TAhwR9OCHf30o9lKy/zMYiBSJGPXTfMU AuQB5KuyX201C8PEKVZ4mKGBTLLP+bpnR+xcPAhA1pjKSzhyW4RdAYqOHgiaKW32RpYg oMaZ7HGtFtpj+o/xLG/cKGR1fAzaeih+qduLXYj7y/pIU1xDRxnB/J99SfERgCaB9nAj mHIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=K8MLkJh8elzO+PHiqbmObzi/C7D35PuDq7THsdaPYrI=; b=g2xNYU1v7NWKDW9ALe2U8HMHhzhNUFJqPg1pi1rm13UuqbNDNtLbQ9D0S6IpmHSvjg YCS+ObrKwAldeCSVG2k/byFAJbudLKB7yjRlEGXxTI+0Jd+wa8LbOny8zrYSNpJFGBbj jEZei1otW5bGv7oP1q1vtmWkkoJKBbzfEU0mTxGcevCmCQ8/B99lSksunLX1sbYqiEqc CHSGvLrOniXhVgUsV2g8eN27DKY4xtsGr8J7Hni+ZescLvjxdV2YN5Wld45H+6HocQH4 94LxkO/dewaAFvfNPThn3wvI0s+3jQ0XzzEEh2VE4Jx9l5XM0RwDc2dJNPEsk95AxiEo UL+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ZYWMh+sGCpSO2tEv+hlIJNXJtOlUNSY6vASnKFetHzIqrH2k2 SMoz8xFgROiXCBGi5krSQOsH1xEh4tiDKL85Wyc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzFrC4466Ztt5+sgJu1a/eVwhHmovSYVL59ePy0s8Ttdmlb4sSjyQtaz2W5uu5txQ4HdRtplowRASEdE6cH2Ns= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:df8a:: with SMTP id w132mr1136923wmg.90.1605567709286; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 15:01:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2020-11-13T18-23-43@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> <874klqew77.fsf@web.de> <20201115122154.50ad1503@linux-h0yu.fritz.box> <87tutq67ka.fsf@gmail.com> <87tutpvppm.fsf@kyleam.com> <871rgtwzrs.fsf@web.de> <87y2j1ahqf.fsf@gmail.com> <87v9e5uw2u.fsf@web.de> <01c3b019-2703-6c0c-988a-7bdbbd7b8a96@gmail.com> <87k0ul9dki.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <87k0ul9dki.fsf@gmail.com> From: Tom Gillespie Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 18:01:36 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert? To: Tim Cross Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::333; envelope-from=tgbugs@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x333.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=dcK/Ju5V; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.71 X-TUID: wuRS/ZSXZ6/e > > Ugh, I update my emacs package pretty infrequently and I usually have 30 or > > more packages updating at a time -- I can't see wading through 30 NEWS > > files searching for landmines... > > > > Yes, this I think is a problem. Most of those packages probably only > have minor changes and bug fixes. We really need some way to be able to > sort or grade those packages based on whether they are minor or major > upgrades. Some sort of metric which would let you gauge the amount of > change and decide if checking the NEWS file would be advisable. An aside. This is one of the reasons that I generally oppose breaking up repositories into smaller projects. Some users want more frequent updates to some parts of a codebase, but they are usually outliers. The end result is that splitting the repo pushes more and more work onto the users, most of whom receive no benefit since they are not bleeding edgers, because now it is up to them to determine compatibility, read the NEWS, etc. Sometimes deeper coupling can actually help. For example in this thread if Emacs and Org were more tightly coupled in their releases then the changes to electric indent mode might not have gone through at all, or might have been delayed until Org could coordinate the change so that users only had to deal with it once. Do we actually want Org and Emacs development to be more coupled? Probably not, but I suspect there is a systematic bias on the part of more frequent participants to want greater decoupling because they are often engaged in the development process and thus have a skewed perspective on what is important --- namely to make development easier.