From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 14:51:11 -0400 Message-ID: References: <86tthjcxd1.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33442"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android Cc: Alan Mackenzie , stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 23 20:52:00 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sLSJk-0008TW-4I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 20:52:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLSJ8-00015N-0r; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 14:51:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLSJ5-00014W-U4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 14:51:19 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLSJ3-0006A7-L0; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 14:51:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:CC:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=87a/L5NlGVpmX1Pu4z16Bh99kocBeEuFEkE0Py24Ib0=; b=PjOMtbm1HU87ScA954uB4zIgz+ EsspCKODZV2KoVqYG5P35HEznduvQLTwYudRM9fTixeMEW2Zh9zoFyxM7wL1UN/CQ7SgvSMtwVHl/ Mqkr19n9AJrzji9bW/8lXKinBajtjhJEnxksv0EolHbkizmnOTN23WXQXouTmRUhSNRpe5a8CKbfm H/cQCHU7/ddBUS+9HD4CCrBRLNKp6beUAg+20/kgb1vF7upqJ4whvb+ExXQb7lpKOe0yod81VOHRu FMkPWHmAxsB5F+AUcNI+06KJfKlito/6u25OE0WGqoVQl3kPqzEjc3Eioxu1oIFOrBqslfyV1MvjD 7t/KBvsw==; Original-Received: from 2603-9001-4203-1ab2-3cf7-e694-fe2f-a711.inf6.spectrum.com ([2603:9001:4203:1ab2:3cf7:e694:fe2f:a711]:36378 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1sLSIx-0005iR-H5; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 14:51:11 -0400 In-Reply-To: <86tthjcxd1.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1; envelope-from=dancol@dancol.org; helo=dancol.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320559 Archived-At: On June 23, 2024 2:44:42 PM EDT, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:05:13 +0000 >> Cc: Stefan Monnier , >> Daniel Colascione , emacs-devel@gnu=2Eorg >> From: Alan Mackenzie >>=20 >> Hello, Stefan and Stefan=2E >>=20 >> On Fri, Jun 21, 2024 at 15:39:09 -0500, Stefan Kangas wrote: >> > Stefan Monnier writes: >>=20 >> > > A few years ago, Daniel suggested: >> > >> Likewise, for windmove, we can bind C-x 4 {left, right, up, down} = and DWIM >> > >> for people automatically, enabled by default=2E >> > > >> > > AFAICT we still don't actually provide any keybindings for the wind= move >> > > commands by default=2E Did I miss a controversy about that, or did= it >> > > just fall through the cracks? >>=20 >> > FWIW, I don't remember any controversy either, so my guess is that it >> > just fell through the cracks=2E >>=20 >> I would be against using C-x 4 or C-x 5 for >> windmove (or anything else) by default=2E Key sequences with arrow key= s >> are too few, and too precious, to use for anything not critically >> important=2E > >I'm not sure we all are on the same page regarding what is being >proposed=2E For that matter, I didn't see a detailed proposal, so I'm >not surprised people are arguing against something that probably isn't >on the table=2E > >For starters, windmove is not a preloaded package (neither is winner, >but since this seems to be only about winmove, I guess winer needs a >separate discussion)=2E To have it available, you need to load it, >either explicitly or by invoking one of the commands (which are >autoloaded)=2E I presume that the proposal for giving windmove commands >key bindings means that the bindings will become in effect once the >package is loaded, because nothing else makes much sense to me=2E Is >that indeed what's being proposed? Does anyone have a problem with an >optional package which, when loaded, binds some keys to its commands? >That's a far cry from a na=C3=AFve interpretation of "giving default key >bindings to windmove"=2E because a user who loads a package expresses >his/her interest in using that package, and so binding some keys for >that makes sense, and doesn't affect users who are not interested in >the package=2E Why not just set up the keybindings by default and autoload the package wh= en the bindings are invoked? That's the friction minimizing option=2E We do= n't have to change any bindings installed by the current windmove code=2E > >Now, windmove already has the windmove-default-keybindings command, >which installs key bindings for its commands=2E They are not "C-x 4 >" bindings, though=2E If the proposal is to perform key bindings >when the package is loaded, and use "C-x 4 " for that, then we >need to make sure windmove-default-keybindings will reset the bindings >back to their current defaults, because otherwise users of windmove >will not be happy=2E > >Any objections to the above detailed proposal? Assuming there are no >significant objections, would someone like to take upon themselves to >submit a patch along those lines?