From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Install C source code for for debugging help Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 11:06:30 +0900 Message-ID: References: <7ba0e94a-6256-c425-aaf8-7ee8822216a7@cs.ucla.edu> <8336gil439.fsf@gnu.org> <1cb04f23-5fa1-c866-41a8-60156d15936d@cs.ucla.edu> <83v9tejjdv.fsf@gnu.org> <83a7apkgn7.fsf@gnu.org> <835zldkfkq.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_63069D2C-1A0C-4946-8154-EB6DF671C309" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="224653"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 28 04:06:55 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iE28M-000wJH-Oo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 04:06:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58770 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iE28L-0003Z7-Db for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 22:06:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34585) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iE28A-0003WU-S4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 22:06:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iE289-00084P-3o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 22:06:42 -0400 Original-Received: from relay12.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.232]:53019) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iE288-00083r-RB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2019 22:06:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.244.12] (tmncd-03p2-17.ppp11.odn.ad.jp [203.139.95.17]) (Authenticated sender: jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org) by relay12.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D91B200002 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2019 02:06:35 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 217.70.178.232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:240355 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_63069D2C-1A0C-4946-8154-EB6DF671C309 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Sep 28, 2019, at 10:32, Richard Stallman wrote: >=20 > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] >=20 >> I expect that the overwhelming majority of the users don't want to = see >> the C source, but then, the vast majority of computer users use >> proprietary software. >=20 >> I think Emacs should (and does) really make a special effort to go = out >> of its way to encourage users to access the source code. >=20 > I think it is enough to help users look at the source code > once they decide to download it. >=20 > If you build and run Emacs uninstalled, this works automatically. We > could fairly easily make it more convenient for those who run > installed Emacs and unpack the corresponding source in their home > directories. >=20 > To go further than that would do no harm, but it could be a lot of > work. I suggest that people do the work if they want to. As a non coder but curious user, I think the current setting is enough: = checkout the code, build, check the source (either C or lisp), do your = thing, build again, etc. Most of the people who are interested in the entrails of free software, = even if not for coding, are willing to take those extra steps, that are = necessary anyway if they want to contribute at one point. Jean-Christophe Helary ----------------------------------------------- http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune --Apple-Mail=_63069D2C-1A0C-4946-8154-EB6DF671C309 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
On = Sep 28, 2019, at 10:32, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> = wrote:

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please = consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the = US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's = example. ]]]

I expect that the overwhelming majority of the users don't = want to see
the C source, but then, the vast majority of = computer users use
proprietary software.

I think Emacs should (and does) really make a special effort = to go out
of its way to encourage users to access the = source code.

I think it is = enough to help users look at the source code
once they = decide to download it.

If you build and run = Emacs uninstalled, this works automatically.  We
could = fairly easily make it more convenient for those who run
installed Emacs and unpack the corresponding source in their = home
directories.

To go = further than that would do no harm, but it could be a lot of
work.  I suggest that people do the work if they want = to.

As a non coder but curious user, I think the = current setting is enough: checkout the code, build, check the source = (either C or lisp), do your thing, build again, etc.

Most of the people who are interested in the = entrails of free software, even if not for coding, are willing to take = those extra steps, that are necessary anyway if they want to contribute = at one point.


Jean-Christophe Helary
-----------------------------------------------
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune


= --Apple-Mail=_63069D2C-1A0C-4946-8154-EB6DF671C309--